Jesus in the garden. what was 'the cup'?

[percho]

Note the differences. Matthew 20:22 is a cup and suffering that Jesus predicts the apostles will drink and be baptized with. However, they did not drink of the cup or were baptized with the suffering in Luke 22:42 because they all fled or denied Christ. Hence, the language is the same but the application is not the same.

The cup in Luke 22:42 that jesus drank is the cup of sin - being made sin for us. This is the "contradiction against sinners" that he endured on the cross.

His suffering on the Cross is two dimensional. He suffered for our sins. However, he also suffered at the hands of men for his righteousness. They did not kill him because of any sin found in him but because they hated him "without a cause."

It is the second human hatred dimension that the apostles would identify with Christ and suffer but not the divine dimension - propitiation for sin.

Matt 20:22 Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

If I understand in that verse above the cup Jesus drinks of is at the hands of wicked men whereas the cup in the garden was "the contradiction against sinners".


What is the baptism in the above verse that Jesus is to be baptized with?

I guess I understand when it comes to the disciples in the next verse it would not be the cup of the contradiction against sinners but the cup of suffering at the hands of men.

What is the baptism they will be baptized with which is the same baptism that Jesus had been baptized with?

 

[JesusSaves!]

I believe it was at this time that Christ in his humanity was dreading the separation from His Heavenly Father. Sin requires punishment and our sin had to be dealt with on the cross. Our sin debt had to be paid in full. So, God turned his back on his Son when our sins entered him. It took the perfect Lamb of God being sacrificed on the cross to take away the sins of the world. And we know God was satisfied because on the third and appointed day, he rose victorious over death, hell, and the grave. Praise God! We have redemption through him. Isaiah 53:10 says, Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 1 Peter 3:18 says, For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, For he has made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[The Biblicist]

Matt 20:22 Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

If I understand in that verse above the cup Jesus drinks of is at the hands of wicked men whereas the cup in the garden was "the contradiction against sinners".


What is the baptism in the above verse that Jesus is to be baptized with?

I guess I understand when it comes to the disciples in the next verse it would not be the cup of the contradiction against sinners but the cup of suffering at the hands of men.

What is the baptism they will be baptized with which is the same baptism that Jesus had been baptized with?

The baptism of suffering is how Christ ended his life at the hands of wicked men. All the apostles but John received this baptism of suffering in how they ended their lives.

 

[percho]

The baptism of suffering is how Christ ended his life at the hands of wicked men. All the apostles but John received this baptism of suffering in how they ended their lives.

Here is where I was going with this.

I believe in both passages from Luke 22 and Matt 20 the cup is the cup of suffering unto death of which Jesus endured such gainsaying from the sinners to himself, even to the point of, resisting unto blood, striving against sin: therefore we should not, wearied in your souls -- being faint. In other words look unto Jesus the author and finisher of the faith, even though on to Matt 20 ye shall indeed drink from the cup of suffering unto death.

Death is a form of suffering of which we shall be buried with him.

The water baptism of Jesus was a picture of his suffering (death) and resurrection with new life by the renewing of the Holy Spirit. Which brings the righteousness of God to us.

Matt 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer now: for thus it becomes us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him. (Put him under the water, death.)
3:16 from Scripture4all.org Greek interlinear
and being baptized the Jesus stepped up straightway from the water and lo were opened to him the heavens and he perceived the spirit of the God descending as if dove and coming on him
3:17 and lo voice out of the heavens saying this is the Son of me the beloved in whom I delite

And being baptized (being made alive again by resurrection, regeneration)
came up out of the water and the Spirit of God descending on him, (the renewing of the Holy Spirit). Declaration as Son of God.

Matt 29:23 and ye shall indeed be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:
Luke 20:36 YLT for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.(resurrection)

 

[revmwc]

Matt 20:22 Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

If I understand in that verse above the cup Jesus drinks of is at the hands of wicked men whereas the cup in the garden was "the contradiction against sinners".


What is the baptism in the above verse that Jesus is to be baptized with?

I guess I understand when it comes to the disciples in the next verse it would not be the cup of the contradiction against sinners but the cup of suffering at the hands of men.

What is the baptism they will be baptized with which is the same baptism that Jesus had been baptized with?

Baptism is always an identification with something, water baptism for the believer identifies the believer with his faith in Christ and shows him dieing to the old man being buried and rising a new creature.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit identifies the believer as being spiritually alive, having the Holy spirit come and dwell in them.
The Baptism of Christ is the baptism of His suffering for us as sinners, the disciples all faced suffering for Christ sake they were identified with His suffering just as we are, how? We have His righteous imputed to our account and we are justified by our Faith in Him thus we are identidfied with Christ in that we have His Righteousness by our Faith.

 

[percho]

Baptism is always an identification with something, water baptism for the believer identifies the believer with his faith in Christ and shows him dieing to the old man being buried and rising a new creature.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit identifies the believer as being spiritually alive, having the Holy spirit come and dwell in them.
The Baptism of Christ is the baptism of His suffering for us as sinners, the disciples all faced suffering for Christ sake they were identified with His suffering just as we are, how? We have His righteous imputed to our account and we are justified by our Faith in Him thus we are identidfied with Christ in that we have His Righteousness by our Faith.

Hi rev

When Jesus and John went into the Jordan river and John put Jesus under the water what did that picture?

 

[revmwc]

Hi rev

When Jesus and John went into the Jordan river and John put Jesus under the water what did that picture?

Obedience to John's message of the Kingdom as at hand and Jesus was identified with the Kingdom.

Mk 1:3The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

6And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Jesus was identified with the remission of sin, He became the one who would pay the price for the sins of mankind. Through Him came salvation and He was identified with Johns message of repentence, remission and salvation. For without Him it would not have been possible.


Lk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

 

[percho]

Obedience to John's message of the Kingdom as at hand and Jesus was identified with the Kingdom.

Mk 1:3The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

6And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Jesus was identified with the remission of sin, He became the one who would pay the price for the sins of mankind. Through Him came salvation and He was identified with Johns message of repentence, remission and salvation. For without Him it would not have been possible.


Lk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Was that suppose to have answered my question?
You owe me one answer. Now for number two.
Do you see anything prophetic in the baptism of Jesus of Nazareth?

 

[Yeshua1]

From my post in Baptist Theology and Bible Study.

The standard teaching and I haven't figured out why is that When Jesus prayed that night in the Garden, in Mat. 26:
38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?


Mark 14:
34And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

35And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.

36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Luke 22:

41And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground

Each of these is taught that Jesus was asking not to go to the cross, I have heard this teaching for many years. Yet scripture if you look to it doesn't bare this teaching out.

First look at the Mat. 26:38 and Mark 14:34 both say Christ was sorrowful to death. He was in great agony and stress close to death. Matthew 26:39 and Mark 14:35 say He fell on the ground while Luke says He knelt, again a sign of the stress and anguish He was suffering. Luke 22:44 says He was sweating drops of blood this is a condition that is called from stress on the capilaries in the forhead.
So again why would anyone see this as His asking not to go to the cross being the cup? The cup represents death that is for sure but these passage seems to indicate a death in the garden from the strss and pressures on His body. Then we have a passage that says His prayer was heard that night,

Hebrews 5:7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Notice what it says Jesus in the days of His flessh, "offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death" and we are told "and was heard in that he feared" His prayer was Heard. the greek Eisakouo is used here for heard, this word means:

1.to give heed to, comply with admonition, to obey
2.to listen to, assent to, a request, to be heard, have request granted
a.of persons offering prayers to God
b.of prayers offered up

God complied with His prayer, the only time we see scripture say Jesus prayed this way was that night in the Garden and His prayer was answered, death in the Garden was taken from Him and in Luke 22:43 we are an Angel came from heaven and strengthened Him. There is Father having heard and complied with Christ prayer of don't let me die here in the Garden and God sent an Angel to strengthen Him, His disciple were sleeping when He needed them most, but His Father heard and answered His prayer. Thank God He hears us and answers or prayers 24-7 just as He did His sons that night.

I have always thought what jesus dreaded the most about his death upon the Cross that for first time he would face eternal seperation from god the father, and experience that seperation same way a sinner will at death!

 

[revmwc]

Was that suppose to have answered my question?
You owe me one answer. Now for number two.
Do you see anything prophetic in the baptism of Jesus of Nazareth?

Jesus was identified as the Messiah and Son of God with His baptism by John. Immediately a dove came down and heaven opened and God declared this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. He would be the payment for our sins, the Remission or ransom price for us.

As for prophetic possibly Isa. 53:12 numbered with the transgressors as well as an annointing as high priest.

 

[percho]

Jesus was identified as the Messiah and Son of God with His baptism by John. Immediately a dove came down and heaven opened and God declared this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. He would be the payment for our sins, the Remission or ransom price for us.

As for prophetic possibly Isa. 53:12 numbered with the transgressors as well as an annointing as high priest.

Was the order of things necessary? Why didn't the dove descend on him with the declaration of him as Son not take place before he went into the water?

Was he, being put under the water a picture of his death?

Was his water baptism a picture (prophesy) of his death, burial, resurrection, receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father and being declared the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead?

 

[revmwc]

Was the order of things necessary? Why didn't the dove descend on him with the declaration of him as Son not take place before he went into the water?

Was he, being put under the water a picture of his death?

Was his water baptism a picture (prophesy) of his death, burial, resurrection, receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father and being declared the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead?

Very much could have been a picture of His death, burial and ressurrection, but those are what brought remission of sins. God does things in perfect order and the order was significant even here, Jesus followed His fathers will. The Father was declaring His Son to John this is the one you have been waiting for the one you have been proclaiming. The Father in making this proclaimation was declaring that the Sons work was beginning and the Water BAptism could very easily been like a annointing of the Messiah to begin His work. All this was seen in His indentification (Baptism), there in the wilderness of the Jordan River.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Was the order of things necessary? Why didn't the dove descend on him with the declaration of him as Son not take place before he went into the water?

Was he, being put under the water a picture of his death?

Was his water baptism a picture (prophesy) of his death, burial, resurrection, receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father and being declared the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead?

GE:

I believe it, yes!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I believe it was at this time that Christ in his humanity was dreading the separation from His Heavenly Father. Sin requires punishment and our sin had to be dealt with on the cross. Our sin debt had to be paid in full. So, God turned his back on his Son when our sins entered him. ......................

GE:


It is sin that separates. In Jesus' case it was OUR sins that made Jesus SUFFER AS THOUGH the Father 'had forsaken' Him; meanwhile the Father was EVER PRESENT right with and at Jesus, right IN his SUFFERING OF THIS TEMPTATION.

Jesus SPOKE TO and WITH his Father, praying the Father PRESENT WITH HIM, WHILE He said, "Father, why did you forsake Me?" Jesus prayed and asked perfectly knowing, He stood in man's place before the Father, realising the Father and God-in-Christ had to forsake all men because sin demanded, and the strength of sin is God's own Law!

Even as Jesus breathed his last breath, dying, He gave his life's spirit into his Father's OWN hands! The Father Omnipresent was HIS Father the EVER-present unchangeable inalienable and unalterable FAITHFUL God.

"Because THOU [the Father] wilt NOT LEAVE my soul in hell [Christ in his Suffering], NEITHER wilt THOU, suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption [IN DEATH OR GRAVE]!"

"THAT GOD ... hath raised THIS Jesus up ... BEING BY THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD EXALTED." “_GOD_ raised Christ BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER."

So WHERE is one moment that the Father 'separated' Himself from Christ Jesus AND LEFT HIM, ALONE?
Banish the thought!

NO! _GOD_ raised Christ _FROM_ the dead" and _FROM_ death and the grave: "THAT GOD" that all the way, had suffered with the Son, in the Son, through the Son, by the Son and THERE, AND THEN, AND SO, "raised Him from the dead."

Conclusion:

There is NO SUCH THING, AS "Christ in his humanity was dreading the separation from His Heavenly Father"; there is only Christ WITH DESIRE DESIRING TO DO THY WILL O GOD even accepting and placing 'humanity' with its sin and damnation upon Himself.