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Jesus is Lord....or not?
- Thread starter J.D.
- Start date
That depends: do they repent? If not, then they show by their lack of repentance, that Jesus is neither their Lord, nor their savior.
Jude 1:20-25
20 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21 Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. 22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. 24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
20 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21 Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. 22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. 24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I am supportive of the Lordship salvation view, in general.
You are not giving enough information, however. Based on the four words you have given, without any context, then I would say you may have an unsaved person... or you may have a very immature Christian that really hasn't thought through his/her salvation very well.
BTW: Jesus said that many would call Him "Lord" on the day of judgment.... and be cast out.
peace to you
raying:He is definitely NOT saved. For one day EVERYONE will fall down and proclaim Him Lord--not necessarily that He is THEIR Lord, but that He IS Lord. Phil. 2:10.11
==Not saved (Rom 10:9).
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I would think they are not. Seems simple. However, I've found questions on this site or never simple. So is this an attempt at Lordship doctrine?
Questions like this or statements which are similar derive out of a fundamental lack of understanding.
Momentary failures do not negate a turning from the world to Christ. When we talk about Christ being Lord we need to view it in the big picture not momentary failures.
But free gracers want to negate any consideration of sin in the salvation process. This sets the cross to the side for salvation and is heresy.
Yes, it is simple. It seems to me that no Christian would deny that Jesus is Lord, or that Jesus is THEIR Lord. I wouldn't call a person that denied His Lordship a Christian, would you? So why all this fuss about "Lordship Salvation"?
It's possible that person is saved but a babe in Christ or a carnal Christian.
See the book of 1 Corinthians, they were saved but certainly their walk did not show that they believed Jesus was Lord of their lives.
Besides, Jesus is more than just Lord, He is Lord of lords.
In fact, Jesus Christ is God incarnate which eclipses every human title of authority that can be given Him.
IMO, The more appropriate question is: can a regenerate person deny the deity of Christ?
To me He is much more than just Lord of my life. He is my Lord and my God. My Creator, Savior, Lord, Shepherd... He is my everything (though I miserably fail Him). Many here no doubt have a similar experience.
But it didn't happen overnight and even yet I will on occassion kick against the goads.
So both by practice and/or confession a babe in Christ might deny His Lordship.
I don't believe a mature Christian is capable of doing it but I suppose if things got really tough, he/she could have a "Jonah" or "Peter" experience.
HankD
Um, to what, exactly are you referring? Did you happen to actually read the book, and see what they are being chided for by Paul?
#1 Fighting over which preacher is better: 1 Corinthians 1:12, 3:3-4
#2 Toleration of someone living in sin (not judging them and kicking them out, so that "they might be saved") 1 Corinthians 5
#3 Taking a person to court to resolve a dispute (1 Corinthians 6)
#4 Abstinence from sexual relations (1 Corinthians 7)
#5 Not sharing food/ waiting on brothers to eat (1 Corinthians 11)
#6 Over exuberance with spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12-14)
Not exactly a laundry list of the most heinous of crimes. These people CLEARLY saw Christ as their Lord. In fact, the standards were so high, Paul commanded for the ONE guy who was sexually immoral, to be thrown out, because he needed to be saved.
Nevertheless, when a person sins, Jesus is not the Lord of their life at that moment. When Peter said "Not so, Lord", Jesus was not his Lord. Saying "Not so, Lord" to the Lord is the polar opposite of having Christ as Lord. Yes, Peter repented almost immediately and radically altered his lifestyle in response to the Lord's command. But even at that, later he compromised with the Jews on the issue of what to eat and was rebuked by Peter. In that situation, again, Peter did not have Christ as Lord at that moment of time.
This is the problem with the LS position as it is often presented. It is said that a person must forsake all their sin and take Jesus as Lord of everything without any reservation. While one may intend to do this, and while doing this would be noble, we know that no one actually does this. Every Christian sins and, at the practical level, rejects Christ as Lord the same way Peter did at some points in their life.
Right, which is my point, and beyond "why" a Christian would deny the Lordship of Christ, my question is, "can" a Christian deny the Lordship of Christ.
I say no. If they deny his Lordship, they are not Christians, it's that simple.
I'm confident that there is nobody on this board that would say "I am a Christian and Jesus is NOT my Lord". How could anyone born of the Spirit utter such blasphemy?
And yet some of us (them) insist that "Lordship Salvation" is some kind of works-based salvation. I don't get it.
Steven2006
New Member
That's like saying when our children disobey, they are not our children (at that moment, as you say). Yet they are always our children and we are always their parents even when they disobey.
Jesus is Lord of our lives even when we disobey Him because we never cease to be His children and He is always our advocate, 24/7.
We do not always walk in the Spirit, but that doesn't mean that we have forsaken Jesus' lordship in our lives.
Paul struggled with sin just as we do.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Yet at no time do I believe Jesus was not Lord of Paul's life.
But when a person who is a Christian sins they are saying "Jesus, you are not Lord of my life"; maybe not in words, but in their deeds. Every Christian sins and no Christian has Jesus as the complete and total Lord of their life either at the time they get saved or anytime thereafter.
Steven2006
New Member
Is there not a difference from someone finding themselves in the snare of sin then repenting and a person the would consciously choose the words and verbally declare that Jesus is not his Lord?