Jesus is the One True Church

[Anthony Pritchard]

Hi Anthony

This discussion is just going in circles.

The distinctions within the Body does not define the body overall, since we're made one spiritually in Him, but still distinct. We're made one "in Christ". the whole Ephesians 1:22-23 tells the same thing.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

It says the Church is His Body, which is the fullness of Him who fills all things.

Do you suppose that it's just a coincidence that the promises that go with the promised "Seed" to Abraham were realized at the same time the Church was? We don't become little seeds in Christ. The promises were made through the Seed, as in one, not many. We become partakers in those promises when we're in Him.

Dave, the discussion isn’t circular. It’s stalled because you keep ignoring the passages that were already laid out. When Scripture is quoted, you move away from the text and into abstractions about “fullness,” “seed,” and “union,” none of which actually address the verses themselves.

The claim in the OP is that Christ is the Church. Every passage presented shows the opposite, and you have not answered a single one of them.

Ephesians 1:22–23 says Christ is the head and the Church is His body. John 3:29 says Christ is the bridegroom and the Church is the bride. Ephesians 2:20–22 says Christ is the cornerstone and the Church is the building. John 10:11 says Christ is the shepherd and the Church is the flock. John 15:5 says Christ is the vine and believers are the branches.

These distinctions are explicit. They are not metaphors that collapse into identity. They are categories that Scripture never reverses. Christ is not the Church. Christ has a Church.

When these verses are placed on the table, you do not address them. Instead, you shift to a different concept, fullness,” “one body,” “the Seed, and treat those as if they erase the distinctions God Himself makes. But none of those passages say Christ is the Church. None of them overturn the plain statements already given.

A discussion only becomes circular when one side refuses to engage the actual texts. The verses have been presented. The distinctions are clear. The claim in the OP still has no scriptural support.

 

[Dave...]

Dave, the discussion isn’t circular. It’s stalled because you keep ignoring the passages that were already laid out. When Scripture is quoted, you move away from the text and into abstractions about “fullness,” “seed,” and “union,” none of which actually address the verses themselves.

The claim in the OP is that Christ is the Church. Every passage presented shows the opposite, and you have not answered a single one of them.

Ephesians 1:22–23 says Christ is the head and the Church is His body. John 3:29 says Christ is the bridegroom and the Church is the bride. Ephesians 2:20–22 says Christ is the cornerstone and the Church is the building. John 10:11 says Christ is the shepherd and the Church is the flock. John 15:5 says Christ is the vine and believers are the branches.

These distinctions are explicit. They are not metaphors that collapse into identity. They are categories that Scripture never reverses. Christ is not the Church. Christ has a Church.

When these verses are placed on the table, you do not address them. Instead, you shift to a different concept, fullness,” “one body,” “the Seed, and treat those as if they erase the distinctions God Himself makes. But none of those passages say Christ is the Church. None of them overturn the plain statements already given.

A discussion only becomes circular when one side refuses to engage the actual texts. The verses have been presented. The distinctions are clear. The claim in the OP still has no scriptural support.

It is circular, because when I show that the distinctions within the body do not change the fact of what the Body is, and does not change the what Scripture claims, you fall back on posting those distinctions again....circular. This is not an opinion.....It's Scripture.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

The church which is His body, the fullness of *Him* who fills all things. I can't say it better.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

That's what the baptism with/by the Holy Spirit tells us.

There is no "baptism by" the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has never "baptized" anything.

Jesus (figuratively) baptized His church body of saved and Scripturally baptized believers at Jerusalem that He had Built, to "Anoint the Holy" as a Fulfillment of Daniel 9:24g; "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to Anoint the Most Holy."

But reading 'water' into the meaning of the word 'baptism' were ever it is used in Scripture without immediate or clear context is serious error

Baptism in the Spirit. "That Jesus would baptize in the Holy Spirit was Prophesied by John the Baptist, and Jesus renewed that Promise just before His ascension (Acts 1:5). This Prophecy was fulfilled at Pentecost (Acts 2) when the church at Jerusalem was Anointed as a Dwelling Place of the Spirit; when those He had Assembled were "Builded Together for an Habitation of God through the Spirit."* To testify of this Miraculous one-time Inguralazation, the believers in and around Pentecost were Immersed in the Miraculous Outpouring of the Holy Spirit which Filled all the members and Enabled them to testify in various languages, after which came Peter's sermon resulting in the salvation, baptism, and addition to the church of "about three thousand souls."

Ephesians 2:19-22; "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners,
but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the Household of God;

20; "And are Built upon the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets,
Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Corner Stone;

21; "In Whom all the Building Fitly Framed Together Groweth unto an Holy Temple in the Lord:

22; "In whom ye also are Builded Together for an Habitation of God through the Spirit.*

"Similar Manifestations occurred later in the house of Cornelius, a Roman centurion, thereby convincing Peter and other members of this hitherto all-Jewish church that Gentile believers must be admitted to the privileges of baptism and church membership on equal terms with themselves.

"Baptism in the Holy Spirit, therefore, was a once-for-all experience of the Lord's church as a body, forever distinguishing this Institution from all counterfeits as the Divinely Constituted Executive Agency of God's Present Kingdom here on Earth.

"No such thing as a "spiritual baptism" of individual believers can be found in the Bible: it is a mere figment of imagination."

From: The Gift of the Spirit, By Rosco Brong<br>

Just like the proof that there is no such thing as 'evolution' taking place is to simply not 'assume' it
(and then look high and low for anything that directly supports it, like an observable fact in Reality,
which doesn't ever happen, because it can't.) There was one Creation Process and none other is found.

The proof that there is no "spirit baptism" of any kind is to simply not 'assume' that it is in various verses and then look in the Bible and try to find anywhere it is actually taught, or said to exist, by any of its writers and that can't happen, since it is not real, in our Reality, or in the Spiritual Realm that God Shares with some of us, in the Bible.

It just means placing into, immersion, or third, dipping into.

Trying the Spirits. "No man speaking in the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and no man can say that Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Ghost." (I Corinthians 12:3.)

"When He, the Spirit of Truth, is Come, He Will Guide you into all Truth:
for He shall not Speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall Hear, that shall He Speak. .
. . He shall Glorify Me." (John 16:13, 14.)

"Beloved, believe not every spirit . . . Hereby know ye the Spirit of God:
Every Spirit that Confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

"and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God. .
. . We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us;
he that is not of God heareth not us.

"Hereby know we the Spirit of Truth, and the spirit of error." (I John 4:1-6.)

"As many as are Led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14.)


The Holy Spirit of God Leads always after our Master, and according to His Word. Alas, that while we are all so led, so many of us only follow so much of the time as did Peter once, "afar off"! (Luke 22:54.)

You would find it to very interesting what the Bible says there in I Corinthians 12 about being Led "by the Spirit". That is where the Holy Spirit's Unction from on High Enables us to understand His Guidance.

First, when we look at Luke 2:27, this is how Simeon came into the Temple; "A he came by the Spirit into the Temple". Simeon was Compelled and Supernaturally Guided and Led "by the Spirit".

Back in I Corinthians 12, in verse 3, we see for context that this same expression is used with that preposition "by" when it says, 3; "Wherefore I give you to understand,
that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."

Then, just as it says in those two places, when the Holy Spirit is Conducting His Administrative Duty to Fulfill I Corinthians 12:18; "But now hath God Set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath Pleased Him", God the Holy Spirit Leads with an Enabling Unction of Supernatural Guidance those saved individuals to become a member of one of Jesus local church assemblies (with their various Gifts, as God Insures where they all "fit together", by being water baptized into that specific congregation, or body of believers like that one there in Corinth.

And is something Paul was reminding both the Jews and Gentiles of there in Corinth.

Both of them were saved by the Same Spirit, in I Corinthians 12:13b, "and have been all Made to Drink into one Spirit" and in addition both of them were Led to be baptized into the same church body together, so they might as well learn that is the way it is and get along.

Paul tells them, in 12:13; "For by One Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all Made to Drink into one Spirit."


Paul tells them, in 12:13; 'since we have all been Led' "by One Spirit
are we all (water) baptized into one (local church) body, (which was the one there in Corinth),

"whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
"and have been all Made to Drink into one Spirit" ( when each of them was saved and since both of them were saved by the Self-Same Spirit that Led them into being joined together as a unit in the Lord's church body, in Corinth, Paul is arguing for them to cultivate unity, along with their diversity in background and Gifts, etc.

Does that sound like what the Lord would have us to understand about that verse?

That is the Divine Interpretation. There isn't any other.