I have continually answered no one seems to be dull of hearing
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Jesus is the Savior of All, Especially those that Believe
- Thread starter revmwc
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Bro. rwc...
You are starting with 'you' and then ending with God. You keep saying 'I this' and 'I that, &c. Salvation starts and ends with God. It matters not if your heart was softer than others. There are no levels of hardness where God would not save if someone's heart if it gets past that hardness level. The unregenerates' hearts are corrupted by sin, period. No matter if we're talking about Hitler's, Ellen Degeneres', or mother Theresa's hearts. They were are corrupted by sin, and because God did not work upon them, sadly, they died lost...not Ellen, she is still alive.
You are starting with 'you' and then ending with God. You keep saying 'I this' and 'I that, &c. Salvation starts and ends with God. It matters not if your heart was softer than others. There are no levels of hardness where God would not save if someone's heart if it gets past that hardness level. The unregenerates' hearts are corrupted by sin, period. No matter if we're talking about Hitler's, Ellen Degeneres', or mother Theresa's hearts. They were are corrupted by sin, and because God did not work upon them, sadly, they died lost...not Ellen, she is still alive.
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Internet Theologian
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So your heart was pure because you didn't harden it? So then, men are born with and maintain a pure heart by exertion of the will. Or not. Up to them.
That my friend is false doctrine.
You have missaplied scripture and Calvin's words and expect that to have answered us? Srsly?
I love how the non-Calvinists use people we quote to support their view, only to have it blow up in their faces.
Some use CHS to say he wasn't a definite atonement sort of guy. Gotta roll my eyes at that one.
Some use CHS to say he wasn't a definite atonement sort of guy. Gotta roll my eyes at that one.
You keep saying it is because you were more humble than your neighbor then when asked why you are more humble than your neighbor you say you aren't.
You keep coming back with the no answer answer. Rolleyes
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
It's because they take them out of context as they also do Scripture. Same practice in a different venue with the same end point: error.
Luckily, Bro. rwc guarded his heart just enough to keep it under the hardness of level 8. If it got to level 8, God's message would not penetrate it. I guess it was at level 7?
He is looking at himself too much.
In 1 Samuel 7:3 the command was to prepare their hearts into the Lord, they had to have a heart that could be prepared by them. How do we prepare our hearts by hearing and heeding the Holy Spirit's drawing. At the age of 6 my heart was tender and prepared, as Jesus said come as a little child, a little child's heart is pure and tender to take in the drawing of the Holy Spirit, that is how my heart was pure and prepared.So your heart was pure because you didn't harden it? So then, men are born with and maintain a pure heart by exertion of the will. Or not. Up to them.
That my friend is false doctrine.
FYI Bro. rwc...
The heart you came to Christ with wasn't the hardened heart you were born with. God exchanged it. And it can also be said He trimmed the sin off of it.
That only reason you came to Christ was because He had already wrought the work of grace upon your heart.
The heart you came to Christ with wasn't the hardened heart you were born with. God exchanged it. And it can also be said He trimmed the sin off of it.
That only reason you came to Christ was because He had already wrought the work of grace upon your heart.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
So you did it. We understand. Believe me we do.
If man can truly prepare their own hearts, no need of God's effacacious works of the heart.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
This isn't even semi-Pelagianism. It is full.
Yes. Spiritual Israel, the saved Jews, were commanded to prepare their hearts unto the Lord.
But Paul says the unsaved man can't hear the things of the Holy Spirit, he cannot know them, and he hates God anyway so he wouldn't listen even if he could hear.
So you deny what the bible says about being in sin from the time of our conception? You deny that all people, even "innocent" children, are sinners? You think people are born saved then lose their salvation along the way then have to do some good work like humbling themselves in order to be saved again?
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
That is not a soteriological passage. It is not about what a person has to do to be saved. Context. 2 Timothy 2:15. This is a huge problem among many, reading too many passages into being soteriological in nature and intent when they are not. Plus, your interpretation and application doesn't follow the rest of doctrine on salvation at all. Again, 2 Timothy 2:15.
So Samuel said to all the Israelites, “If you are returning to the Lord with all your hearts, then rid yourselves of the foreign gods and the Ashtoreths and commit yourselves to the Lord and serve him only, and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.”[1 Samuel 7:3]
If they were truly returning to the Lord, they would...
1) rid themselves of their foreign gods and Ashtoreths
2) commit themselves to the Lord
3) serve Him only
Those that truly did this, God had already worked upon their hearts. Those that love Him have been born of Him. This was also an OT reality, too.
If they were truly returning to the Lord, they would...
1) rid themselves of their foreign gods and Ashtoreths
2) commit themselves to the Lord
3) serve Him only
Those that truly did this, God had already worked upon their hearts. Those that love Him have been born of Him. This was also an OT reality, too.
Gonna reply to the above post Bro. mwc?
Incorrect Christ said if He was lifted up He would draw all men to him. He must draw man must respond. Because the efficacious work on the heart is all part of the efficacious work on the Cross.
Bzzzzzzz! Wrong!
The Greek word used for 'draw' is:
--to draw, drag off
--metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel
This was used for the word 'draw' in John 12:32 you used. If you are drawn by an inward power, this 'He must draw, you must respond' stuff just flew out the window.
Now, if God draws and man does not come, then that is not efficacious, now is it?
Thayer has the word as Helkyo meaning to draw or drag off, however in a metaphorical use it means to draw by inward power, lead or impel. Vines states thisunder drag using the word helkuo This less violent significance, usually present in helko, but always absent from suro, is seen in the metaphorical use helko, to signify drawing by inward power, by Divine impulse, John 6:44; John 12:32. So in this Christ was saying He would draw by the inward power the man by a Divine impulse. That is the Holy Spirit now draws us by our inward power and His Divine impulse upon us. However those with a hardened heart refuse to respond positively. One such we see is
Acts 26:28Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. He was almost persuaded but he refused why because he had hardened his heart.
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