Jesus is the Savior of All, Especially those that Believe

[SovereignGrace]

But John 12:32 uses helkō, as in drawing a net. The fish that get caught in the net are effectually drawn to the one drawing them. Just like God drawing His people. He draws, they come. End of story.

Many people, such as Agrippa, the rich young ruler, Simon the socerer, &c, are 'almost' persuaded. However, their hardened heart precludes them from being fully persuaded. Regardless someone's heart is 1 on the hardness scale of 1-100 or 99 on that same scale, it takes God to break that stony heart, to transplant it with a new heart, give it a circumcision made without hands before they can be fully persuaded.

Nothing, and I reiterate nothing, you have posted, refutes anything I have said. Neither what IT or TC have said as well.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thayer has the word as Helkyo meaning to draw or drag off, however in a metaphorical use it means to draw by inward power, lead or impel. Vines states thisunder drag using the word helkuo This less violent significance, usually present in helko, but always absent from suro, is seen in the metaphorical use helko, to signify drawing by inward power, by Divine impulse, John 6:44; John 12:32. So in this Christ was saying He would draw by the inward power the man by a Divine impulse. That is the Holy Spirit now draws us by our inward power and His Divine impulse upon us. However those with a hardened heart refuse to respond positively. One such we see is
Acts 26:28Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. He was almost persuaded but he refused why because he had hardened his heart.

I do not know where you get that someone's heart being less hardened by sin makes it easier to believe. Regardless one's heart is a 5 on the scale of 1-1,000 or 559 on that same scale, the one with the '5' is just as depraved as the one who is '559'. You come across as thinking when people were sinners they were acting like 'boy, I'd better not do that or my heart will become too hard'. That is the farthest thing from a sinner's mind and heart. Sinners want nothing to do with God. The bible is plain in stating it.

"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."[John 3:19-21]

Sinners aren't worried about guarding their hearts. All they want is to love sin and self.

 

[SovereignGrace]

"I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.[Romans 6:19-20][/I]

As sinners, sinners were enslaved to Satan. He had them deceived. Look at today's world. He has bamboozled people into believing the g@y lifestyle is not sin. Many people will tell you it is not a sin. Yet the bible avers its wickedness. Sinners can't care less about their heart's hardness, because they are under Satan's controlling power.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Bro. rwc...

Let's compare two of the most vile people mentioned in the bible. I am referring to Pharaoh during Moses' time and one Saul of Tarsus.

Pharaoh during Moses' time was evil. He knew not God, and he hardened his heart(God also hardened it, too, by the way). The Pharaoh Moses approached, he beseeched him to let God's people go, but he tightened the screws tighter and worked the Israelites even harder. He lied repeatedly by saying if Moses would have God remove that plague he would let them go, only to not do so. His heart was so hardened by and in sin that it took the death of his first born before he'd let them go. He then chased after them, only to be drowned in the Red Sea.

Then there is one Saul of Tarsus. He was the Pharisee of Pharisees, of the strictest sect. He was persecuting the church, even consented to the murder of Stephen when he was stoned. He said this Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Now, Saul of Tarsus sure did not have a softer heart than Pharaoh, in my opinion. He had letters in his hands ready to bring back Christians as prisoners. Yet, Christ, spoke to Saul, who spoke with a different tone after the Light knocked him off his donkey.

What made Saul of Tarsus saved and Pharaoh not?

"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me."[1 Corinthians 15:10]

 

[TCassidy]

Incorrect Christ said if He was lifted up He would draw all men to him. He must draw man must respond. Because the efficacious work on the heart is all part of the efficacious work on the Cross.

So if He draws all men to Himself will all men be saved or just those who do the good work of responding to the call?

 

[SovereignGrace]

So if He draws all men to Himself will all men be saved or just those who do the good work of responding to the call?

No. It will be those wretched sinners who had an innate(that word gets bandied about on here quite a bit) ability to guard their heart from getting too hard to respond to the gospel. You know? Sinners worry about not trying to harden it too hard. Rolleyes Whistling

 

[SovereignGrace]

So if He draws all men to Himself will all men be saved or just those who do the good work of responding to the call?

He's left the deciding vote up to man.

God is all powerful, yet can't overcome a sinner's free will.
God is all knowing, yet doesn't know how to overcome a sinner's free will.
God is all present, yet can't find access to a sinner's heart unless they allow Him entrance.

Again? Who saves?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning. Sometime after 6 am Pacific Time this thread will be closed.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Come on Brother Squire. Please don't close/lock this thread.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed. If y'all want to discuss certain points raised in this thread, you're free to start a new one.

Six Hour Warning. Sometime after 6 am Pacific Time this thread will be closed.