Jesus only “knows” believers who are obedient

[Yeshua1]

G'day Samuels,

Jesus used the word "knew" in the same sense of personal, intimate awareness. For example: Amos 3:2; Jeremiah 1:5. In Amos 3:2 God speaks to Israel, “You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.” The Lord knows about all families, but He knew about Israel in a special way. In Jeremiah 1:5 God is not saying that He knew about Jeremiah, but that He had a special regard for the prophet before He formed him in his mother’s womb. In Matthew 7:22-23 our Lord cannot be understood here as saying, I knew nothing about you, for it is quite evident that He knew all too much about them – their evil character and evil works; hence, His meaning must be, I never knew you intimately nor personally, I never regarded you as the objects of my favor or love.

Also see 2 Timothy 2:19 with emphasis and Romans 8:28 as well as Romans 8:29. The Lord knows about all men but He only knows those “who love Him, who are called according to His purpose”. In Romans 8:29 whom is the object of the verb and not works. Give that pause, because "they" (Elect persons) are the objects of His love, He set His affection upon them.

God bless,
William

Salvation always is top down, from God towards us, not us towards Him!

 

[Samuels]

Jesus used the word "knew" in the same sense of personal, intimate awareness.

Vine says that "knew" in Matthew 7:21-23 refers to "approval"!
Or in this case, not "approving" of them.
IMO, this refers to NOT doing the will of the Father in heaven.

 

[Samuels]

"Therefore he is able, once and forever, to save those who come to God through him.
He lives forever to intercede with God on their behalf." (Hebrews 7:25 NLT)
Samuels, THIS is Once Saved, Always Saved!

Okay fine, now explain ...
what's with the dozens of DIRE WARNINGS in the NT written to the believers in the churches?

 

[Shimei]

Vine says that "knew" in Matthew 7:21-23 refers to "approval"!
Or in this case, not "approving" of them.
IMO, this refers to NOT doing the will of the Father in heaven.

Lets ask why Jesus did not approve them.

And Is it your opinion that the will of the Father is not:

1. To prophesy in Christ's name?
2. Cast out demons in Christ's name?
3. And do many wonders in Christ's name?

Consider my previous post and now 1 Corinthians 13:1-2:

• 1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
  
• 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Jesus never had a special regard or intimate awareness about them, they were not the objects of his affection. Obviously, Christ knew not only about them but also their works. You seemingly have placed works/obedience as a prerequisite or condition on salvation?

God bless,
William

 

[Shimei]

Salvation always is top down, from God towards us, not us towards Him!

Salvation is monergism.

God bless,
William

 

[utilyan]

Lets ask why Jesus did not approve them.

Is it your opinion that the will of the Father is not:

1. To prophesy in Christ's name?
2. Cast out demons in Christ's name?
3. And do many wonders in Christ's name?

Exactly why were these people not doing the will of the Father?

Consider my previous post and now 1 Corinthians 13:1-2:

• 1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
  
• 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Jesus never had a special regard or intimate awareness about them, they were not the objects of his affection. Obviously, Christ knew not only about them but also their works. You seemingly have placed obedience through works as a prerequisite or condition on salvation?

God bless,
William

Good Works is required. If Good works is an evil work call it as it is.

The Good Works is Love God and Love neighbor. When God puts his command in your hands do you do you inspect his command and say....... well this won't earn me salvation, this won't even earn me 10 dollars.......?

The idolatry here is SALVATION above God.

When God gives a command we do it for free. Not like a prostitute or gold digger who only does things for selfish reward.


Some here would claim only the elect would have the capacity to understand all mysteries and all knowledge, that only they can even have faith even more so all faith, so as to remove mountains.

^Capability and capacity that would be alien to a reprobate. You say of them they can't even understand the gospel. Here is one who KNOWS ALL.

Yet the qualifying factor is THE GOOD WORK--> LOVE.


Calvinism makes a accusation that God is Evil with a legalist "GOOD" label.

Called "fair" and "just".

You probably say to yourself if GOD was FAIR every soul on earth would be in hell right now.

That's easy logic for a SELFISH mind who only thinks about himself and salvation.

But I only need to point to a lesser example then God like a man who loves everyone he'll tell you the way to punish him is to makes the one he loves suffer.

So how does God deserve punishment? how would that be FAIR?



Debating Calvinism is a piece of cake. I'd have a harder time debating against the Devil or Hitler being God.

The only thing holding it up is peer pressure and cowardice for glue.

 

[Shimei]

The Good Works is Love God and Love neighbor..... When God puts his command in your hands do you do you inspect his command and say....... well this won't earn me salvation, this won't even earn me 10 dollars.......?
....Debating Calvinism is a piece of cake. I'd have a harder time debating against the Devil or Hitler being God.

Genuine faith is always accompanied by good works. Works justify the faith and not the man.

You mention loving God and your neighbor are works. They are Law. Since the Law includes loving God and loving our neighbors, those parts of the Law must be fulfilled perfectly.

1. Deuteronomy 6:5, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."
2. Leviticus 19:18, "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."

We are undoubtedly supposed to love, but keeping the Old Testament command to love God and love your neighbor is not good enough.

• Paul said, “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," Galatians 2:21.
  
• And again, "Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law," Galatians 3:21.

Paul clearly tells us that we cannot obtain the righteousness that we need by keeping the Law, which includes loving God and loving your neighbor.

And lastly, there's a difference between arguing and debating.

John 6:44
No can come to me (T)
Unless the Father (U)
Draws them to me (I)
And I will raise them (L)
On the last day (P)

I'll leave you to argue amongst yourself.

God bless,
William

 

[utilyan]

Genuine faith is always accompanied by good works. Works justify the faith and not the man.

You mention loving God and your neighbor are works. They are Law. Since the Law includes loving God and loving our neighbors, those parts of the Law must be fulfilled perfectly.

1. Deuteronomy 6:5, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."
2. Leviticus 19:18, "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."

We are undoubtedly supposed to love, but keeping the Old Testament command to love God and love your neighbor is not good enough.

• Paul said, “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," Galatians 2:21.
  
• And again, "Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law," Galatians 3:21.

Paul clearly tells us that we cannot obtain the righteousness that we need by keeping the Law, which includes loving God and loving your neighbor.

And lastly, there's a difference between arguing and debating.

John 6:44
No can come to me (T)
Unless the Father (U)
Draws them to me (I)
And I will raise them (L)
On the last day (P)

I'll leave you to argue amongst yourself.

God bless,
William

"Paul clearly tells us that we cannot obtain the righteousness that we need by keeping the Law, which includes loving God and loving your neighbor."

Galatians 5

14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

Clearly you are wrong. Just this verse.....no Calvinist would ever say. Paul is not a Calvinist.

When Paul talks about the law it is the JEWISH LAW, like having to be circumcised ect.

Loving God and Loving neighbor is the Good Works, anything outside of that is Evil, sin, an evil work.


1 Timothy 1

5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith


If someone is weighing God's command to see if it PAYS salvation they need to repent from being a gold digging prostitute.

God says Jump, we say how high.

The command of God officially states his WANT AND DESIRE. If God commands a rock to love God then that rock better do it, to question capacity is sin.

God clearly states wants no one to sin, wants all to love neighbor and all to love God. Its by going against the desire of God that sin is a sin.

 

[Laradex3]

Samuels,

To know, or knew:

http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/1097.html

Click on Strong’s. It admits to not being a complete definition.

Same page has the equivalent Hebrew 3045. Click on it.

Then click on Strong’s: causatively, “instruction.”

Therefore,

Matt 7:23: “ I never knew you” is, alternatively, “I never instructed you,”

to do those things. Away from me you evil doers!

Other comments:

While a paraphrase, The Living Bible says, “You have never been mine. Go away,

for your deeds are evil.”

On this verse, The Bible Knowledge Commentary says, “They would be refused

admission to the kingdom because Jesus had no personal relationship with them.”

(p.34)

 

[Yeshua1]

Salvation is monergism.

God bless,
William

Yes, as calvinists hold to!

 

[Yeshua1]

Good Works is required. If Good works is an evil work call it as it is.

The Good Works is Love God and Love neighbor. When God puts his command in your hands do you do you inspect his command and say....... well this won't earn me salvation, this won't even earn me 10 dollars.......?

The idolatry here is SALVATION above God.

When God gives a command we do it for free. Not like a prostitute or gold digger who only does things for selfish reward.


Some here would claim only the elect would have the capacity to understand all mysteries and all knowledge, that only they can even have faith even more so all faith, so as to remove mountains.

^Capability and capacity that would be alien to a reprobate. You say of them they can't even understand the gospel. Here is one who KNOWS ALL.

Yet the qualifying factor is THE GOOD WORK--> LOVE.


Calvinism makes a accusation that God is Evil with a legalist "GOOD" label.

Called "fair" and "just".

You probably say to yourself if GOD was FAIR every soul on earth would be in hell right now.

That's easy logic for a SELFISH mind who only thinks about himself and salvation.

But I only need to point to a lesser example then God like a man who loves everyone he'll tell you the way to punish him is to makes the one he loves suffer.

So how does God deserve punishment? how would that be FAIR?



Debating Calvinism is a piece of cake. I'd have a harder time debating against the Devil or Hitler being God.

The only thing holding it up is peer pressure and cowardice for glue.

As Calvin stated, good works do not save a sinner, as the faith alone/grace alone is the method used by God, and it is faith alone, but real saving faith will be shown by good works afterwards!

 

[Yeshua1]

Genuine faith is always accompanied by good works. Works justify the faith and not the man.

You mention loving God and your neighbor are works. They are Law. Since the Law includes loving God and loving our neighbors, those parts of the Law must be fulfilled perfectly.

1. Deuteronomy 6:5, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."
2. Leviticus 19:18, "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."

We are undoubtedly supposed to love, but keeping the Old Testament command to love God and love your neighbor is not good enough.

• Paul said, “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," Galatians 2:21.
  
• And again, "Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law," Galatians 3:21.

Paul clearly tells us that we cannot obtain the righteousness that we need by keeping the Law, which includes loving God and loving your neighbor.

And lastly, there's a difference between arguing and debating.

John 6:44
No can come to me (T)
Unless the Father (U)
Draws them to me (I)
And I will raise them (L)
On the last day (P)

I'll leave you to argue amongst yourself.

God bless,
William

You would be agreeing with John Calvin, as he held to faith alone saves us, but that type of saving faith would show in genuine good works after salvation!

 

[Yeshua1]

Samuels,

To know, or knew:

http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/1097.html

Click on Strong’s. It admits to not being a complete definition.

Same page has the equivalent Hebrew 3045. Click on it.

Then click on Strong’s: causatively, “instruction.”

Therefore,

Matt 7:23: “ I never knew you” is, alternatively, “I never instructed you,”

to do those things. Away from me you evil doers!

Other comments:

While a paraphrase, The Living Bible says, “You have never been mine. Go away,

for your deeds are evil.”

On this verse, The Bible Knowledge Commentary says, “They would be refused

admission to the kingdom because Jesus had no personal relationship with them.”

(p.34)

Those whom he foreknew is more than just awareness of them, its that He causedthem to become known as now saved!

 

[Samuels]

Lets ask why Jesus did not approve them.
You seemingly have placed works/obedience as a prerequisite or condition on salvation?

The NT talks about many different ways re: doing God's will.
Works: Matt 25, James
Obedience: too many to list

Saving faith produces obedience, works, fruit, righteousness, overcoming sin.
These are proof of one having saving faith.

I'm here to warn that ...
believers who are habitual unrepentant sinners are disqualified from heaven.

 

[Samuels]

The Living Bible says, “You have never been mine. Go away, for your deeds are evil.”

Yes, and Vine says "knew" has the meaning of "approval".

The end of Matt 7:23 shows what Jesus is complaining about:
evil works, unrighteousness, etc., which is NOT doing God's will (v. 21).

 

[Yeshua1]

The NT talks about many different ways re: doing God's will.
Works: Matt 25, James
Obedience: too many to list

Saving faith produces obedience, works, fruit, righteousness, overcoming sin.
These are proof of one having saving faith.

I'm here to warn that ...
believers who are habitual unrepentant sinners are disqualified from heaven.

That would be due to them never been saved! Jesus stated to do the will of God is first and foremost to trust in/belive in the Son of God, Jesus, as your Lord!

 

[MennoSota]

I'm here to warn that ...
believers who are habitual unrepentant sinners are disqualified from heaven.

I'm here to warn you that they were never believers in the first place.
Sinners are disqualified from heaven, whether repentant or unrepentant. We don't get in because of our good works. We qualify for heaven because Jesus took God's wrath for our sins and his atonement makes us holy. Our life is exchanged and Christ's life takes its place. Christ and Christ alone, Samuel.

Satan is an imitator. It stands that those who are enslaved to sin will imitate Christ as much as they can without ever having been reconciled to God. Why do you think Jesus talked about the tares being amongst the wheat?

 

[utilyan]

I'm here to warn you that they were never believers in the first place.
Sinners are disqualified from heaven, whether repentant or unrepentant. We don't get in because of our good works. We qualify for heaven because Jesus took God's wrath for our sins and his atonement makes us holy. Our life is exchanged and Christ's life takes its place. Christ and Christ alone, Samuel.

Satan is an imitator. It stands that those who are enslaved to sin will imitate Christ as much as they can without ever having been reconciled to God. Why do you think Jesus talked about the tares being amongst the wheat?

1 timothy 5

8But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

 

[MennoSota]

1 timothy 5

8But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

LOL, you do know how to pull verses out of your KJV without ant context.

Let me try...
Deuteronomy 25
[11]“If two Israelite men get into a fight and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the [edited: secret parts] of the other man,

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm here to warn you that they were never believers in the first place.
Sinners are disqualified from heaven, whether repentant or unrepentant. We don't get in because of our good works. We qualify for heaven because Jesus took God's wrath for our sins and his atonement makes us holy. Our life is exchanged and Christ's life takes its place. Christ and Christ alone, Samuel.

Satan is an imitator. It stands that those who are enslaved to sin will imitate Christ as much as they can without ever having been reconciled to God. Why do you think Jesus talked about the tares being amongst the wheat?

He is really stuck on being obedient to God as way to get /stay saved, and that passage indeed speaks towards mere professors of salvation!