Jesus' Real Birthday

I've read where this is actually a myth. Poor shepherds were often homeless and had to live in the open fields with their flocks regardless of the season. Jacob complained to Laban that he suffered from frost by night (Gen. 31: 40) Alfred Edersheim (Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah) says there is no adequate reason for questioning the historical
accuracy of Dec. 25, that some flocks remained in the open the year around. It usually doesn't get bitter cold in the climate around Bethleham. I think it's the Mededitanean type climate also found on the coast of California.

 

Shepards couldn't have been out in the cold of dec. 25th
watching there [sic] flocks by night...far too cold. There is many reasond why
it wasnt 25th of dec but is the simpleist one.

That is NOT a simple answer and Shephards could have been out in
the cold on early Dec 25.

I've been debating the date of the Birth of Messiah Jesus for 21 years
on the internet alone. For at least the past 14 years I've checked the
weather at Jerusalem on Christmas Eve. The average low is
52. This is the rainy season in the hills around Bethelhem, which keeps
the temperature moderate (and the wet air is the above average air).
One year the low temperature was under freezing (31-degrees-F).
There was no snow any year.

Sorry, Shepherds do keep their sheep in the fields during
December and early January in the vicinity of Bethelhem

BTW, I was just outside in my short sleeves. It is 36-degrees
with an average wind of 3MPH (Oklahoma dead calm - you know
"Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the planes [sic]" ).
I wasn't uncomfortable. And recall that God has given all his
sheep sheep a WOOL COAT.

(Caveat: just because Jesus could have been born on 25 Dec
does not PROVE that He was born on that date.)

 

Amen, Brother Ed - Preach it! :thumbs:

 

Think about it. If this theory is true Jesus could have been conceived on December 25 couldn't He? Any way you look at it, I think God has really blessed this day. So all the schrooges that want to do away with Christmas don't have a leg to stand on! I actually believe the ancient records of Him being born on Dec. 25.

 

Matthew 2 says that Herod the King (a.k.a. Herod the Great) was king at the time of the Magi's arrival. Didn't he die sometime around end of March/beginning of April, 4 B.C.? If this is true, does this eliminate the fall of 3 B.C. or any other later dates from the possibilities?

My next question is this: If Heard the Great met with the Magi, doesn't this place the Magi in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus' birth and not some 1-2 years afterwards as many say?

P.S. I'm really enjoying this thread!

 

See the WikipediA article on Harod the Great at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great

especially the "Herod's family trees" at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#Herod.27s_family_trees

There were a whole chain of Herods in the
Roman government. Perchance another Herod
was considered?

It is better to celebrate Messiah Jesus on
the holiday for His Resurrection than
on the holiday for His birthday.

 

The Jewish celebration of Herod's death was January 24.

Josephus tells us Herod died after an eclipse of the moon and was buried with all the rituals involved before Passover. Shortly before Herod died, he ordered the execution of a number of rabbis. It was written by Josephus that the moon was 'red with the blood of the murdered rabbis.' This means it was a full eclipse and not a partial eclipse, for you do not get a 'red moon' with a partial eclipse. Thus, the eclipse in March of 4 BC, being a partial eclipse, would not have been a red moon. In addition, there was so much pomp and circumstance to do with Herod's burial, a March death would not have left time for all of the burial procedures before Passover.

Only one eclipse fits the requirement. There was a full eclipse of the moon on January 9 of 1 BC.

This fits perfectly with the timing of the Wise Men, the astronomical events in the skies in 3 and 2 BC, and the dates of Jesus' and John's births.

The registration, when Mary was heavy with child, was in the late summer and autumn of 3 BC. The Magoi visited the Child in December of 2 BC, when He was about 15 months old. Herod had asked them when the star first appeared. We do not have their answer, but Herod ordered children two and under to be slaughtered, trying to get rid of a pretender to his throne. Herod died in January of 1 BC. If we backtrack from the last possible date Herod could have seen the Magoi (which would have been January of 1 BC), we again run into 3 BC again as the year of Christ's birth.

 

Thanks, Helen!

 

I was going to share exactly what helen has so well stated already. *shrugs*

You go girl!

Interestingly enough I have read an article/book snippet that pinpoints the date to Sept. 11th of 3 BC. Wouldn't that be interesting!

 

Interesting posts, Helen, although I'm not sure how you come up with a Dec. visit by the Magi.
Luke teaches that Joseph and Mary returned every year for the Passover after Jesus was born and I believe this is when the Magi arrived.
{For those of you who believe the Magi were present around the birth, compare Luke ch. 2 to Matthew ch.2.
Six weeks after the birth of Jesus, after fulfilling the requirements of the Law per Leviticus 12:1-8, Joseph and Mary went home. Immediately after the visit by the Magi, they fled to Egypt. It had to have been two separate occasions.}

MR

 

He gave us the Lamb to keep us warm, and to eat. God provides.

Cool to cold windy, wet weather adds up to Pneumonia for sheep. This is what it is at night in the hills of Bethlehem in December, beginning in the latter part of October. Human beings (shepherds ) also do their best to avoid such situations as this. The latter part of September and the first of October allows for grazing in the hills of Bethlehem at night.

"October

This is our month to breed the adult ewes. Ewes are separated into 3-4 breeding groups, each group assigned a
different ram and placed in their own pasture. Otherwise gentle rams can become very protective of their girls, and
caution needs to be taken with them, especially when visitors come. Spring born Finn ewes can be bred the first
year, but we like to wait until late December, allowing them to grow out and gain more size. Begin to reduce grain
and begin feeding a good grass hay as pastures recede. Allow barn access for colder nights."

"November

Toward Thanksgiving, breeding should be complete and separated flocks can now be allowed rejoin one another.
Keep rams in a small area at first in case they don't recognize one another. They may fight at first, but in a confined
space, they won't cause any injuries. In a few days, the rams can rejoin the ewes for the winter."

Source - Misty Mountain Farms, Amissville, VA.

Is Amissville, VA, Bethlehem? Not by a long shot, but sheep and people remain the same, wherever they are, when the cooler air, rains, and winds come.

Because Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, is the reason we can't prove it. The world wishes us to believe what they want us to believe. I don't believe them.

 

ituttut: //Source - Misty Mountain Farms, Amissville, VA. //

Virginia is as far north of Bethelehem
as Virginia is south of where the Eskimos live.
i.e. Virginia doesn't have weather like Bethelehem has.

 

Bethelehem is about on the 31st parallel, as is
Jacksonville. Florida. Virginia is halfway between
the James bay extension of Hudson Bay, where
eskimos live, and Huson Bay.

 

I opt for April 16 as the birthdate of Jesus, as do most who have done any serious study of the political clime at the time, the three travellers following a "star" and how the shepherds handled their sheep at that time of that month. They even slept in the pens that confined the sheep.

Oddly enough, there was a secular program on my radio yesterday discussing this very thing, and confirmed my April dating....very convincing.

Cheers,

Jim

By the way, when I was in the desert, it rose to over 140f during the day, and dropped to 70f at night...we had to wear winter dress in the military, and short trousers during the day. It is not the temperature so much as the change. The body cannot adjust that quickly, and that makes the lower temperature cold.

 

This is the 4th day of tevet (Dec.) according to Jewish Calendar

This is the 5th day of tevet

This is the 6th day of tevet

This is the 7th day of tevet

This is the 8th day of tevet

This is the 9th day of tevet

This is the 10th day of tevet

19 days shy of January (shevat)

Could not be. It would seem (according to scripture) John was most likely conceived in the middle or last part of July. This would point toward Mary being impregnated in the latter part of January, Jesus thus being born in the first part of October.

 

Looks good to me Helen.

 

Ed: //1st day - 25 Dec 0001BC//

Ituttut: //This is the 4th day of tevet (Dec.) according to Jewish Calendar//

Then the 8th day - 01 Jan 000AD would be the 11th day
of Tevet. No problem IMHO.

Of course, I have no idea how you got 25 Dec 0001BC was
the 4th day of Tevet. what was the Jewish Year then?

 

Realize what you say is true, but rain, wind and 46 degrees or so at night is not conducive to good animal husbandry, or production. Their HI today 57 F, and LO 31 F.

As information the elevation in Bethlehem is 2,500 feet vs. 460 for Amissville, Va.

Luke 2:8 God gives us specifics, "…shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Regardless of what we may think, Shepherds, and Sheep owners are not stupid. The "pickings" in the pastures are kind of poor during the winter months. These people don't raise sheep for the fun of it.

 

Thanks for the History lesson. We had a very enjoyable trip a few years ago to Banff, Lake Louis, and Jasper. Didn't see any igloos while there, but didn't see any in Alaska last year either.

 

I knew that part of the Great Conspiracy was for the world to make us believe that Jesus was born on December 25. That is such an important issue that I am sure it is high on their agenda.