Jesus, The Sin-Offering for the Whole World.

[Van]

2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches conditional election by reason of faith in the truth.

1 John 2:2 NASB
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He Himself refers to our Lord Jesus.
Is the propitiation refers to Jesus being the means of salvation.
For our sins refers to John's intended audience of born anew believers.
Jesus is also the means of salvation for the whole world, all humankind. Everyone God places into Christ spiritually is saved, and everyone not placed into Christ remains unsaved.

 

[AustinC]

Already broke this down for people. 1 John 2:1-3 does not teach that Jesus propitiation covered all humans. If one teaches this, one teaches universalism.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

What is Propitiation?

Propitiation is a big word that means satisfaction. Because God is a holy God, His anger and justice burns against sin. And He has sworn that sin will be punished.

There must be a satisfactory payment for sin. But God said, “If I punish man for his sin, man will die and go to hell. On the other hand, if I don’t punish man for his sin, My justice will never be satisfied.”

The solution? God said that He would become our substitute. He would take the sin of mankind upon Himself in agony and blood—a righteous judgment and substitute for sin.

His wrath burned out on the cross when His only Son died as man’s propitiation for sin.

Notice that if a person holds to the whole world be propitiated by Jesus, then the whole world must be redeemed. You cannot have it any other way.
However, the verses surrounding verse 2 give us the correct interpretation, which is that all believers in the whole world have been propitiated by Jesus death for their sins.
What Does “Propitiation” Mean?

 

[AustinC]

2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches conditional election by reason of faith in the truth.

1 John 2:2 NASB
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He Himself refers to our Lord Jesus.
Is the propitiation refers to Jesus being the means of salvation.
For our sins refers to John's intended audience of born anew believers.
Jesus is also the means of salvation for the whole world, all humankind. Everyone God places into Christ spiritually is saved, and everyone not placed into Christ remains unsaved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-17 never says anything about "conditional" election. It is you figment of imagination. Read the passage and note that there are no conditions attached. God chose with no revealed condition for his choosing. The text is clear.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruitsto be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Conditional election is legalism, just as sbw's teaching is legalism. Hence, you two represent a different side of the legalism coin.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Indeed. And 1 John 2.2 says that Jesus died for the whole world

1 John 2:2 (NKJV). 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.'
One thing is entirely clear: the Lord Jesus cannot be the propitiation for all the people in the world because Scripture clearly states that God is not propitiated towards all the people in the world (e.g. John 3:18; John 3:36).
Therefore you need to look more carefully at what the text is saying.

 

[Van]

2 Thessalonians 2:13-17 never says anything about "conditional" election. It is you figment of imagination. Read the passage and note that there are no conditions attached. God chose with no revealed condition for his choosing. The text is clear.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Conditional election is legalism, just as sbw's teaching is legalism. Hence, you two represent a different side of the legalism coin.

Here again, the version presented is the Calvinistic corruption of the text. God chose you for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth. That is not legalism, it is the truth of scripture. Pay no attention to the pathetic effort to change the subject to what is or is not legalism. It is an obvious ploy to the defenders of falsehood.

 

[Van]

1 John 2:2 (NKJV). 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.'
One thing is entirely clear: the Lord Jesus cannot be the propitiation for all the people in the world because Scripture clearly states that God is not propitiated towards all the people in the world (e.g. John 3:18; John 3:36).
Therefore you need to look more carefully at what the text is saying.

How many times will being the propitiation or means of salvation be falsely equated with being saved or propitiated. On and on folks, on and on.

 

[Van]

What is Propitiation?

It is the means of appeasement, that which turns aside of God's wrath from sinners. They it is the means of salvation from the wrath of God. So simple a child could understand it.

Jesus Christ is the propitiation or means of salvation from God's wrath for the whole world, all humankind, but only those God puts into Christ are saved from that wrath.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

How many times will being the propitiation or means of salvation be falsely equated with being saved or propitiated. On and on folks, on and on.

As many times as it takes for you to understand it, I suppose. 'Propitiation' does not mean 'means of salvation.' Never has and never will.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What is Propitiation?

It is the means of appeasement, the turning aside of God's wrath from sinners. They it is the means of salvation from the wrath of God. So simple a child could understand it.

Because you can write in bold, it does not make you right.

 

[Van]

As many times as it takes for you to understand it, I suppose. 'Propitiation' does not mean 'means of salvation.' Never has and never will.

How many times will it take you to grasp fundamental doctrine, such as propitiation refers to the means of being saved from God's wrath. In Christ = propitiated, not in Christ = not propitiated. So simple a child could understand. Any one and everyone God places into Christ is saved from the wrath of God.

 

[Van]

Because you can write in bold, it does not make you right.

Yet another you, you, you post avoiding the biblical truth presented in bold.

What is Propitiation?

It is the means of appeasement, that which turns aside God's wrath from sinners. Thus it is the means of salvation from the wrath of God. So simple a child could understand it.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning

This thread will be closed no sooner than 10 pm EST/ 7 pm PST

 

[SavedByGrace]

1 John 2:2 (NKJV). 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.'
One thing is entirely clear: the Lord Jesus cannot be the propitiation for all the people in the world because Scripture clearly states that God is not propitiated towards all the people in the world (e.g. John 3:18; John 3:36).
Therefore you need to look more carefully at what the text is saying.

that is because you are using the wrong defination for the Greek “ιλασμος”, which I have fully explained in the OP, that the meaning is "sin offering".

 

[SavedByGrace]

Six hour warning

This thread will be closed no sooner than 10 pm EST/ 7 pm PST

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is the means of appeasement, that which turns aside of God's wrath from sinners

it means SIN OFFERING!

 

[Dave G]

it means SIN OFFERING!

In the Greek it is :
G2434 - hilasmos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
and means "propitiation", which, according to many dictionaries, means "appeasement".

Propitiation:
the action of propitiating or appeasing a god, spirit, or person.
"he lifted his hands in propitiation"

Definition of PROPITIATION
Definition of propitiate | Dictionary.com


The word for "sin offering" is not "propitiate"...
It is "sacrifice", "atonement" or "expiation":

Definition of EXPIATION
Definition of expiation | Dictionary.com

That would be the Greek word, "καταλλαγή", found here:
G2643 - katallagē - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

Which means "atonement" or "reconciliation".

 

[AustinC]

Here again, the version presented is the Calvinistic corruption of the text. God chose you for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth. That is not legalism, it is the truth of scripture. Pay no attention to the pathetic effort to change the subject to what is or is not legalism. It is an obvious ploy to the defenders of falsehood.

In no translation or in greek do you read of a conditional election. You assert what is not there.

 

[Van]

In no translation or in greek do you read of a conditional election. You assert what is not there.

Here again is the straight up denial of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5

Of course our election for salvation is through or by reason of faith in the truth. God chooses those who have faith in the truth, who are rich in faith, and who love God.

Just read the passages folks....

 

[SavedByGrace]

In the Greek it is :
G2434 - hilasmos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
and means "propitiation", which, according to many dictionaries, means "appeasement".

Propitiation:
the action of propitiating or appeasing a god, spirit, or person.
"he lifted his hands in propitiation"

Definition of PROPITIATION
Definition of propitiate | Dictionary.com


The word for "sin offering" is not "propitiate"...
It is "sacrifice", "atonement" or "expiation":

Definition of EXPIATION
Definition of expiation | Dictionary.com

That would be the Greek word, "καταλλαγή", found here:
G2643 - katallagē - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

Which means "atonement" or "reconciliation".

Did you read the OP

 

[AustinC]

Here again is the straight up denial of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5

Of course our election for salvation is through or by reason of faith in the truth. God chooses those who have faith in the truth, who are rich in faith, and who love God.

Just read the passages folks....

No denial. How many times do you have to read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 before you admit it says nothing about conditional election. Pick any translation, you cannot find your assertion in the text. Therefore you are inserting into the text in order to extrapolate your theory.
Now, show us the specific translation that actually says election is conditional.