Jews, Supersessionism, the ADL and Ann Coulter

[BobRyan]

At this Link - Ann Coulter is villified by the ADL and Media Matters and others for letting Meia Matters trick her into saying that Republicans are characterized in general as being Christian and tolerant.

She then went on to suggest that this was her "idea of heaven" - at which point Media Matters immediatly spun the conversation around and turned the focus to "Jews vs Christians" -- in an apparent effort to justify their bias about questioning whether Christians were actually "a good thing" that people should be happy to become rather than simply a societal poriah that America must endure with patience.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/12/national/main3361954.shtml

They then managed to dredge up the dark ages persecution of the Jews by the RCC and the topic of "supersessionism" which is the teaching that Judaism became a defunct/invalid form religion that was replaced by the "new religion" - Christianity.

The ADL (Anti-defamation league) chimed in with this comment in that CBS news report

ADL
"The notion that Jews are religiously inferior or imperfect because they do not accept Christian beliefs was the basis for 2,000 years of church-based anti-Semitism. While she is entitled to her beliefs, using mainstream media to espouse the idea that Judaism needs to be replaced with Christianity and that each individual Jew is somehow deficient and needs to be 'perfected,' is rank Christian supersessionism and has been rejected by the Catholic Church and the vast majority of mainstream Christian denominations."

In Ann Coulter's attempt to get out from under the bus that MM had just tossed her under - she said this...

COULTER: No, no, no, no, no. I don't want you being offended by this. This is what Christians consider themselves, because our testament is the continuation of your testament. You know that. So we think Jews go to heaven. I mean (Jerry) Falwell himself said that, but you have to follow laws. Ours is "Christ died for our sins." We consider ourselves perfected Christians. For me to say that for you to become a Christian is to become a perfected Christian is not offensive at all.

So she has Jews going to heaven still to this day by a Gospel of works - while Christians get there on "fast track" through grace -- obedience optional.

1. IS it true that the majority of Christian groups consider it unethical to evangelize Jews since they all adopt "I'm ok - your ok" instead of "Go into all the world and make disciples"??

2. How much of Coulter's supposed "anti-semitism" do you think is correct doctrine?

in Christ,

Bo

 

[Sgt. Fury]

For the record, I like Ann Coulter. I like her wit, her sarcasm, and her aptitude for exposing liberals for what they are - mentally deficient. And she's not hard to look at, either.

But I think she messed up in her attempt to represent Christianity. The Bible is very clear on the fact that no man shall be justified (saved) by the works of the Law (Rom 3:20, etc).

No one, Jew or Gentile, will go to heaven apart from obedience to the gospel.

I think she should examine herself, whether she be in the faith (2 Cor 13:5).

 

[Sgt. Fury]

In her defense, though she did come out with some pretty off-base comments, I think we could all agree that no matter what you say, somebody's going to be offfended.

That's the unforgiveable sin these days - to offend someone. It's as though people think they have some Constitutional protection from being offended. It's a big, bad world out there, and every now and then you're going to get your feelings hurt. Man up and deal with it.

 

[BobRyan]

That is true. But what concerns me is that the article made it appear that Christianity itself had left the arena of evangelism and had settled for "you're ok -- I'm ok -- and we all agree our religion really doesn't matter, it's just cultural".

The article appears to take the position that anyone who says otherwise is guilty of hate anti-semitism etc.

Admittedly Ann Coulter is not anybody's evangelist or theologian -- but the "fault" they were finding with her was the extent to which she admitted what everyone else says all the time in the pulpit if they are promoting supersessionism.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[JFox1]

I don't care much for Ann Coulter. I tred reading her book, Godless, last year, and couldn't get past the fourth page. I returned it to the library.

Although my church believes in supersessionism because Martin Luther believed in it, I disagree with that teaching.

 

[Sgt. Fury]

What is "supersessionism"? I've not heard of it. The Reader's Digest version would be fine.

 

[billwald]

Nothing in the Gospels that indicates Jesus intended to start a new religion.

 

[BobRyan]

What is "supersessionism"? I've not heard of it. The Reader's Digest version would be fine.

Belief that the Christian religion has replaced the Jewish religion as the true religion of God. It states that Jews need to be converted to Christianity to be saved.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't care much for Ann Coulter. I tred reading her book, Godless, last year, and couldn't get past the fourth page. I returned it to the library.

Although my church believes in supersessionism because Martin Luther believed in it, I disagree with that teaching.

Thanks.

Accordoing to the link the ADL (AntiDefimation League) believes that the RCC and all major protestant Denominations have dropped the idea of supersessionism.

Kinda odd that they have that idea.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Nothing in the Gospels that indicates Jesus intended to start a new religion.

Exactly, I don’t see Jesus saying anything negative about how the Jews of that time worshipped. I was amazed when I attended my first Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I really felt like I was worshiping God as His people have always done…as one example, we recite the same processional psalms as did the priests during the OT times…

In XC
-

 

[Aaron]

I chose "other" in the poll. Judaism was a temporary parenthesis in God's plan of Redemption. Christ is an high priest after the order of Melchisedec, an eternal priesthood by the power of an endless life. The Levitical priesthood was temporal priesthood based on a carnal commandment.

Christianity is the Kingdom of God. It shall never end, but Judaism has ended. At least in God's eyes it has.

 

[just-want-peace]

Belief that the Christian religion has replaced the Jewish religion as the true religion of God. It states that Jews need to be converted to Christianity to be saved.

Bolded mine!

Well, I've never heard this term before, but it sure sounds correct to me.

How else are Jews to be saved except by becoming a Christian?

 

[NiteShift]

"Since God was pleased (and not in vain) to testify in ancient times by means of expiations and sacrifices that he was a Father, and to set apart for himself a chosen people, he was doubtless known even then in the same character in which he is now fully revealed to us."

"Here we must guard against the diabolical imagination of Servetus, who, from a wish, or at least the pretence of a wish, to extol the greatness of Christ, abolishes the promises entirely, as if they had come to an end at the same time with the Law"

- John Calvin

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I chose "other" in the poll. Judaism was a temporary parenthesis in God's plan of Redemption. Christ is an high priest after the order of Melchisedec, an eternal priesthood by the power of an endless life. The Levitical priesthood was temporal priesthood based on a carnal commandment.

Christianity is the Kingdom of God. It shall never end, but Judaism has ended. At least in God's eyes it has.

Exactly. It ended when the temple curtain was torn in two.

Jews spent the entire Old Testament waiting for the promised redeemer, then rejected him. Ann is wrong if she believes otherwise. Jews who truly follow the Old Testament would accept Christ as the promised one.

 

[BobRyan]

If you read the article ADL accuses Coulter of "Supersessionism" which is to claim that the Jewish religious system is either ended or in some way inferior to Christianity.

In the dialoge published at that link - Ann Coulter argues that their religion is "less than" but does not go all the way to saying "All Jews are lost" - rather she refuses to go to that last point.

But EVEN that that half-way point ADL accuses her of being hateful, antisemetic and states that practically all of Christianity rejects that "Judaism is less than" argument.

Where do they get the idea that the majority of Christians would not go as far as Ann Coulter went?

If you watch the Ann Coulter video -- she is not quite as extreme as the news article painted it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME


in Christ,

Bob

 

[trustitl]

Exactly, I don’t see Jesus saying anything negative about how the Jews of that time worshipped. I was amazed when I attended my first Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I really felt like I was worshiping God as His people have always done…as one example, we recite the same processional psalms as did the priests during the OT times…

In XC
-

"I don’t see Jesus saying anything negative about how the Jews of that time worshipped." Say what? The prophets had been warning them for hundreds of years about it. John the Baptist continued the warnings and Jesus told them as well.

You say worship is not entertainment? It is not reciting processional psalms either. Don't let your feelings deceive you.

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." Jesus

You can't see worship.

 

[JFox1]

Thanks.

Accordoing to the link the ADL (AntiDefimation League) believes that the RCC and all major protestant Denominations have dropped the idea of supersessionism.

Kinda odd that they have that idea.

According to this article, http://kinnordavid.blogspot.com/2005/08/patriachate-of-jerusalem-judaism-and.html, the Roman Catholic Church stated it doesn't replace Israel but was grafted onto it. My church, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, teaches replacement theology as does the Wisconsin Evengelical Lutheran Synod (WELS):

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=47&cuItem_itemID=6794

I'm not sure what the other Protestant denominations teach about replacement theology.

 

[BobRyan]

Replacement theology teaches that the promises once given to literal Israel now apply to the Church as spiritual Israel.

"Supersessionism" teaches that the Jewish faith is NOT equal to the Christian faith but rather is "less than" -- (and in some forms of this it teaches that Jews need to become Christians to be saved.)

 

[spiersdodgerblue]

Anyone that does not accept Christ in their hearts as their Lord and Savior, God in the flesh, is lost in the world and thus dead. So, anyone who does not believe is "less than" spiritually. But still worthy of common respect. I believe all followers in Christ are to be sharing The Good New to all who don't believe that Jesus is the Christ. As for Ann, she is my sister in the Lord. But alot of what she says on all the shows she is on, comes out as harsh, loud and prideful. She can do with a little tumble in the dryer with a few fabric softner sheets.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

I'm not sure what the other Protestant denominations teach about replacement theology.

All Reformed denominations would agree with replacement theology.