Job's Resurrection Verse: Job 19:25-26

[asterisktom]

was Jesus resurrection a spiritual or a physical one?

And do you see a future time yet for His second coming, when all the saved shall be raised up physically, or is thatall now just a spiritual resurrection already at salvation?

Why should I answer you again? You have asked me this question before. I answered it ... again and again.

That is one reason I am not going to bother anymore responding to you. You forget what I wrote in the past. You seem to have etch-a-sketch memory, often shaken up.

The other reason is that you hardly ever use Scripture.

 

[Aaron]

If in the Resurrection, there is no marriage, are Christians to marry, since the Resurrection has happened?

 

[Greektim]

Why should I answer you again? You have asked me this question before. I answered it ... again and again.

That is one reason I am not going to bother anymore responding to you. You forget what I wrote in the past. You seem to have etch-a-sketch memory, often shaken up.

The other reason is that you hardly ever use Scripture.

And just like that, Yeshua1 is added to Tom's ignore list. Join the club, partner!

 

[percho]

If in the Resurrection, there is no marriage, are Christians to marry, since the Resurrection has happened?

Absolutely the best question of the decade.

 

[Aaron]

If in the Resurrection, there is no marriage, are Christians to marry, since the Resurrection has happened?

.........Well?

 

[asterisktom]

If in the Resurrection, there is no marriage, are Christians to marry, since the Resurrection has happened?

Absolutely the best question of the decade.

That passage you are using also says that in the resurrection they will be like the angels. And what are the angels like? Well, for one, they have no physical bodies.

"29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

You selectively use one part of the passage and leave the other.

 

[PreachTony]

That passage you are using also says that in the resurrection they will be like the angels. And what are the angels like? Well, for one, they have no physical bodies.

"29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

You selectively use one part of the passage and leave the other.

Daniel 9:21 reads "Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation." (section italicized only for emphasis)

Daniel saw Gabriel as a man and was touched by him, which says to me that there is some physical presence there. Jacob "wrestled with an angel." The text says a "man" wrestled with him, though the "man" was able to put Jacob's hip out of joint by simply touching it.

 

[Aaron]

That passage you are using also says that in the resurrection they will be like the angels. And what are the angels like? Well, for one, they have no physical bodies.

"29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

You selectively use one part of the passage and leave the other.

You said the Resurrection has happened. Are you revising your statement?

 

[percho]

That passage you are using also says that in the resurrection they will be like the angels. And what are the angels like? Well, for one, they have no physical bodies.

"29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

You selectively use one part of the passage and leave the other.

Luke further explains that they are like the angels in that they can die no more.

Marriage was until death do us part. Notice all these brothers, died childless and lastly the woman died. Because of the law there was no adultery because death ended the marriage, See Romans 7:2,3 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Now marriage, of the man to the woman taken from him, pictured the eternal union of Christ to the church, at which time, she, the church will have overcome the gates of Hades, for she, the church will have been resurrected from the dead, equal unto the angels. Therefore no marriage between man and woman for there will be no male nor female.

 

[The Biblicist]

That passage you are using also says that in the resurrection they will be like the angels. And what are the angels like? Well, for one, they have no physical bodies.

"29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

You are perverting the text. The analogy between angels and men in the resurrection is not in regard to having physical bodies. The analogy is, indeed the whole answer to the Sadducees is that they will have resurrected physical bodies but like the angels there will be no self-reproductive capabilities.

Furthermore, the natural reading of Job demands he is referring to his resurrected physical state. Your interpretation is forced and completely unnatural.

 

[Greektim]

You are perverting the text. The analogy between angels and men in the resurrection is not in regard to having physical bodies. The analogy is, indeed the whole answer to the Sadducees is that they will have resurrected physical bodies but like the angels there will be no self-reproductive capabilities.

Furthermore, the natural reading of Job demands he is referring to his resurrected physical state. Your interpretation is forced and completely unnatural.

And you soon will be on his ignore list.

Good points, btw

 

[The Biblicist]

And you soon will be on his ignore list.

Perhaps, but that won't change the truth of the text.

Good points, btw

Thanks, just stating the obvious.

 

[asterisktom]

Daniel 9:21 reads "Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation." (section italicized only for emphasis)

Daniel saw Gabriel as a man and was touched by him, which says to me that there is some physical presence there. Jacob "wrestled with an angel." The text says a "man" wrestled with him, though the "man" was able to put Jacob's hip out of joint by simply touching it.

Oh. I see. You are arguing that, based on "man" being used, angels are physical? Talk about wresting Scripture in order to hold on to your peculiar beliefs.

 

[asterisktom]

You are perverting the text. The analogy between angels and men in the resurrection is not in regard to having physical bodies. The analogy is, indeed the whole answer to the Sadducees is that they will have resurrected physical bodies but like the angels there will be no self-reproductive capabilities.

Read the text again. Christ was not correcting them with the notion that we will have physical resurrected bodies. How do you get that from the text? Please consider carefully what is actually being said here, and why Jesus told them that they were "deceived", Matt. 22:29.

The Sadducees here were the ones positing - for the sake of ridiculing resurrections altogether - a physical resurrection ("In the resurrection whose wife does she become?"). Now we know from Acts 23:8 that these Sadducees not only don't believe in the Resurrection, but also don't believe in angels or spirit.

So what exactly was Jesus saying that was in error? It was in response what they had just said. Their notion of resurrection - though they didn't believe it themselves - was a physically-based one, assuming marriage in the after-life. Jesus, after rebuking them, rectified their unworthy characterization of what the Resurrection meant:

They will be like the angels. But since several people here didn't like my answer of just what that meant maybe we should look a bit closer at what Christ said, Luke 20: 34-36:

"“The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

They don't marry.
They don't die anymore.
They are equal to the angels.
They are sons of God.
They are sons of the resurrection.

But notice the phrase "the resurrection". The Sadducees also used the phrase, though they ridiculed it. Modern Christianity speak all too often about - although they wouldn't use the term - individual resurrections. But the Bible uses the word in the singular. This is an important clue as to what this resurrection really is.

A really interesting study is to notice other passages that deal with this same topic. Notice the following verses, noting especially the things we no longer do, or are, because we are in Christ - who is the Resurrection:

"Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all. - Col. 3:11

"for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:26-28

Question: Does Galatians 3:26-28 describe a future time, or is it a reality that Christians already possess?

I hope you say the latter. But if it is true then this passage also says we are no longer "male or female". No longer "Jew" or "Greek" (by which, in extension, he meant any non-Jews, strangers to the Covenant).

It is this same "no longer" that Christ meant when He spoke of no longer marrying. It is not that there will not be marriages in this life, but that this no longer has connection with the Kingdom of God, the age to come (our age). By the same token Paul said that the "Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit", Rom. 14:17

There is so much more I want to write on this wonderful topic, but this will have to do for now.

 

[asterisktom]

Oh. I see. You are arguing that, based on "man" being used, angels are physical? Talk about wresting Scripture in order to hold on to your peculiar beliefs.

My language there was a bit strong, PreachTony. Sorry for that. I had confused you with another poster. While I do think your view is wrong I shouldn't have called it "peculiar".

 

[The Biblicist]

Read the text again.

I think you are the one that better reread the text. You forget that Paul sided with the Pharisees against the Sadducees in Acts 23:7-9 and the Pharisees did believe in a physical resurrrection and that is the precise reason Paul states that he sided against the Sadducees with the Pharisees. The Sadducees denied any physical resurrection at all. Josephus plainly tells you that. Have you read Josephesus????

The seven husband argument was designed to ridicule the idea of a physical resurrection not designed to support it!!! Jesus is supporting the physical resurrection and his answer shows that the sadducees both ancient and modern neither know God's Word or God's power.

Christ was not correcting them with the notion that we will have physical resurrected bodies. How do you get that from the text?

Do you forget that one qualification for being an apostle is to be an eyewitness of the resurrrected body of Christ? Do you realize that 1 Corinthians 15 is by design to prove the resurrection of Christ's body as the sole basis for the resurrection of our bodies in "the resurrection"? Surely, you don't deny the clear and explicit teaching of Paul in 1 Cor. 15?????

So what exactly was Jesus saying that was in error? It was in response what they had just said. Their notion of resurrection

Their question was designed to make fun of any kind of physical resurrection and thus deny any and all future resurrections - that was their intent. Jesus used physically dead people (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) in response rather than CURRENT BORN AGAIN people! Your argument is absolutley irrational and a complete distortion of the entire context!! According to your theory, Jesus should have used CURRENT BORN AGAIN KINGDOM BELIEVERS to counter their argument but HE DOES NOT!. The future resurrection is called the resurrection of "the dead." Are you claiming the metaphorical body of Christ is "dead" and needs to be resurrected?

I cannot go on responding to your nonsense until I ask you a direct question and please give me a direct answer. Do you believe that 1 Corinthians 15 teaches a future physical resurrection of the body of the saint? Do you believe 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 teaches a physical bodily resurrection of the saints that Christ brings with Him? They are obviously spiritually alive as they come with Christ, so what is the need of a resurrection of just them if the only resurrection in the future is a resurrection of the metaphorical body of Christ? Are only those whom He brings with them this metaphorical body??? Please just Yes or no to these questions!

 

[asterisktom]

I think you are the one that better reread the text. You forget that Paul sided with the Pharisees against the Sadducees in Acts 23:7-9 and the Pharisees did believe in a physical resurrrection and that is the precise reason Paul states that he sided against the Sadducees with the Pharisees. The Sadducees denied any physical resurrection at all. Josephus plainly tells you that. Have you read Josephesus????

Are we maybe pounding the keys too hard? Yes, I read him.I read War of the Jews twice through. I also read the NT section of Ussher's Annals twice through. So I know what the Sadducees believed.

The seven husband argument was designed to ridicule the idea of a physical resurrection not designed to support it!!!

Well ... duh. I said as much. Read what I wrote again.

Or better yet, read it for the first time.

Jesus is supporting the physical resurrection and his answer shows that the sadducees both ancient and modern neither know God's Word or God's power.




Do you forget that one qualification for being an apostle is to be an eyewitness of the resurrrected body of Christ? Do you realize that 1 Corinthians 15 is by design to prove the resurrection of Christ's body as the sole basis for the resurrection of our bodies in "the resurrection"? Surely, you don't deny the clear and explicit teaching of Paul in 1 Cor. 15?????

I guess this is a really important question, because it has 5 "?'s" after it. (Which is a different form of pounding the keys but - if it works for you - fine.)

No, I don't deny the clear and explicit teaching of Paul in 1 Cor. 15. But I clearly am not seeing what you are seeing as the teaching in that chapter.


After a flurry of more pounding and ALLCAPS we come to this gem:

Are you claiming the metaphorical body of Christ is "dead" and needs to be resurrected?

At this point I just give up trying to respond to you. I said nothing of the sort. My Christ is very much alive, needing nothing.

 

[Greektim]

Are we maybe pounding the keys too hard? Yes, I read him.I read War of the Jews twice through. I also read the NT section of Ussher's Annals twice through. So I know what the Sadducees believed.


Well ... duh. I said as much. Read what I wrote again.

Or better yet, read it for the first time.


I guess this is a really important question, because it has 5 "?'s" after it. (Which is a different form of pounding the keys but - if it works for you - fine.)

No, I don't deny the clear and explicit teaching of Paul in 1 Cor. 15. But I clearly am not seeing what you are seeing as the teaching in that chapter.


After a flurry of more pounding and ALLCAPS we come to this gem:


At this point I just give up trying to respond to you. I said nothing of the sort. My Christ is very much alive, needing nothing.

How is it that we let tom get away with his snarky demeanor, but when you try it against him he puts you on ignore? I think we should all ignore him if that is the game he's going to play.

 

[Greektim]

My language there was a bit strong, PreachTony. Sorry for that. I had confused you with another poster. While I do think your view is wrong I shouldn't have called it "peculiar".

So your snarky attitude is justified with the correct audience??? This is the height of hypocrisy people. Am I the only one seeing this? He put me on ignore b/c we call each other names (well I called on of his comments asinine so he called me asinine). He is showing himself to be a hypocrite in every sense.

 

[The Biblicist]

At this point I just give up trying to respond to you. I said nothing of the sort. My Christ is very much alive, needing nothing.

Reread what I said and then respond correctly! I said "METAPHORICAL" body not literal body. Your position seems that the future resurrection has to do with the "metaphorical" body of Christ(the church) rather than with the individual physical body of the saint. However, it is called the resurrection of "the dead"! Again, is the "metaphorical" body of Christ (the church) dead, because the future resurrection is of "the dead"!

The rest of your response was no response at all. Your argument over Acts 23:8 is pointless because Paul sided with the Pharisees who do believe in a PHYSICAL bodily resurrection and THAT IS THE CONTRAST between the Pharisees and Sadducees which you simply attempt to pervert and deny.

Notice that Acts 23:8 says "both" not THREE things! Angels and spirits represent ONE CLASS - conscious existence without a physical body. The other class is "resurrection" of a physical body. Paul sided with the Pharisees and thus believed in the resurrection of the physical dead buried body of the saint.

Neither did you respond to the fact that Jesus uses PHYSICALLY DEAD BURIED saints (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) in his response to the Sadducees rather than LIVING REGENERATED saints to prove his point about the resurrection of the physical body being reunited to conscious living spirits.

You simply provided no response to these problems with your interpretation.