Joel Osteen. True Christian or false convert?

[quantumfaith]

...is not for me to say! I believe that all the speculation in this world over whether a person or for that, a denomination, is or isn't in God's heart of written in the Lamb's Book of Life is way beyond my paygrade, calling and the mission I've been sent here to do!

I say let God worry about the Osteen, Hinn's, Warren's, etc., of this world! Let's be concerned with our own walk, and like when the tribulation comes, everything else will pan out in the end!

AMEN Righteousdude.....AMEN.

I,personally, have not been a fan of Mr. Olsteen, but I do think highly of Andy Stanley, who is not an author of confusion. I think sometimes those who seek to repeatedly criticize pastors and leaders with whom they have disagreement might be due to "pulpit envy". You are so correct, our God is most certainly big enough to deal with those HE deems as problems and purveyors of gross mistruth.

 

[evangelist6589]

AMEN Righteousdude.....AMEN.

I,personally, have not been a fan of Mr. Olsteen, but I do think highly of Andy Stanley, who is not an author of confusion. I think sometimes those who seek to repeatedly criticize pastors and leaders with whom they have disagreement might be due to "pulpit envy". You are so correct, our God is most certainly big enough to deal with those HE deems as problems and purveyors of gross mistruth.

No its more about having a love for the truth. Reading both the Truth War & The Jesus you Cant Ignore you will notice that Jesus had a love for the truth, as well did the disciples and many throughout history whom gave their lives for the truth. We live in a day of apathy towards doctrine and the Andy Stanley's, the Joel Osteens, and company can get away with their shallow doctrines and departure of scripture. So very sad the wicked day that we live in, but such was prophesied in the scripture. The Truth War is one book that I have read more than once and a book every Christian needs to read.

The truth War

There is no middle ground―no safe zone for the uncommitted in this war. The battle for truth is raging, and this book reveals:

The pitfalls of postmodern thinking
Why the Emerging Church Movement is inherently flawed
Past skirmishes in the Truth War and their effect on the Church
The importance of truth and certainty in a postmodern society
How to identify and address the errors and false teachings smuggled into churches
"[The postmodern age] is the age of no truth, an age that has reached a point of deadly fatigue when it comes to facing the truth―a generation that no longer believes truth can be known.

 

[preacher4truth]

No its more about having a love for the truth. Reading both the Truth War & The Jesus you Cant Ignore you will notice that Jesus had a love for the truth, as well did the disciples and many throughout history whom gave their lives for the truth. We live in a day of apathy towards doctrine and the Andy Stanley's, the Joel Osteens, and company can get away with their shallow doctrines and departure of scripture. So very sad the wicked day that we live in, but such was prophesied in the scripture. The Truth War is one book that I have read more than once and a book every Christian needs to read.

The truth War

There is no middle ground―no safe zone for the uncommitted in this war. The battle for truth is raging, and this book reveals:

The pitfalls of postmodern thinking
Why the Emerging Church Movement is inherently flawed
Past skirmishes in the Truth War and their effect on the Church
The importance of truth and certainty in a postmodern society
How to identify and address the errors and false teachings smuggled into churches
"[The postmodern age] is the age of no truth, an age that has reached a point of deadly fatigue when it comes to facing the truth―a generation that no longer believes truth can be known.

We see though the typical apathy a couple posts above to 'let God worry about the heretics in the world' when it instead is clear we are to fight for the faith, Jude 3, and that Scripture also exposes, and by name, heretics and also false teaching, Galatians, 1-2 Timothy, Acts, The Gospels, Romans, 2 Peter &c.

As if the above apathy toward error and the authors of error weren't enough, we see others applauding the false notion that it is God's work when clearly it is the work of men of God to obey Scripture and expose them. Such apologists are shunned for doing this. Furthermore, those in churches who hold this apathy towards such a stand typically also hold to many grave theological errors themselves.

 

[padredurand]

Philippians 1:15-18 KJV

15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.​

Rock on Joel! Rock on!

 

[preacher4truth]

Philippians 1:15-18 KJV

15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.​

Rock on Joel! Rock on!

lol...Paul is talking about improper motives in preaching Christ, the text does not support a false prosperity Gospel message nor a message that preaches a christ of such a false Gospel, also Galatians 1.

 

[padredurand]

lol...Paul is talking about improper motives in preaching Christ, the text does not support a false prosperity Gospel message nor a message that preaches a christ of such a false Gospel, also Galatians 1.

Twenty years ago I could see myself ranting and raving about these TV guys. I just have a natural distrust for anyone who smiles that much. I don't have the time for it. In the real world I have between 1 - 3 hours of teaching time to spend with the church. I believe it is more important that they are grounded in the Word.

I believe a grown man or woman smart enough to get out of bed and get to church is smart enough to learn what God has to say to His people and to apply it to what they see or hear. I can't waste my limited time preaching about what I am against. Give the folk the right tools so they can measure the content of what they hear. I'm with you on Paul's words to the Galatian church:

Galatians 1:8-9 NAS77
8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

Feed the flock a good, wholesome diet and they will know what is good for the body and what to spit out. How will they know what is contrary to the Gospel? They need to know the Gospel.

Does God want His people to be rich, fat and happy? He doesn't call us to be happy He calls us to the joy of His salvation. He does not call us to be rich in things that thieves steal and moths destroy. He calls us "according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus." He doesn't call us to be successful; He calls us to be faithful. He doesn't call us to make Forbes list. He calls us to the Lamb's.

The prosperity gospel (and I hate to use such a precious word to describe it) consistently falls short of the whole truth. It is like the whole of the Gospel is a fresh-baked apple pie. The prosperity folk let you look at it, smell it and crave for a bite but they never let you taste it.

O taste and see that the LORD is good; How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!
Psalms 34:8 NAS77

 

[salzer mtn]

What makes a popular well known preacher ? If a man has a talent of conversation and he can communicate with people. If a man has money to buy television time he will get a following of people that will back him with money. If a man preaches a gospel that will not offend people and he constantly offers rewards either heavenly or material rewards for their obedience to his prosperity. Joel and preachers like him are religious hucksters, con artist whose god is their belly, fleecing the old and ignorant. He has his reward here on earth.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What makes a popular well known preacher ? If a man has a talent of conversation and he can communicate with people. If a man has money to buy television time he will get a following of people that will back him with money. If a man preaches a gospel that will not offend people and he constantly offers rewards either heavenly or material rewards for their obedience to his prosperity. Joel and preachers like him are religious hucksters, con artist whose god is their belly, fleecing the old and ignorant. He has his reward here on earth.

your right, but shame on the ignorant (Good word meaning :lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated) for not having the presence of mind to become AWAKE & AWARE. Do some research & discovery for heavens sake!!!

 

[webdog]

I won't judge his salvation but this man doesn't belong behind a pulpit. He is more fitted to be a Dr. Phil or Oprah like personality.

Agreed, fair assessment. Anyone who pens a book titled Best Life Now, this side of heaven, has no business being a pastor, IMO.

 

[quantumfaith]

We see though the typical apathy a couple posts above to 'let God worry about the heretics in the world' when it instead is clear we are to fight for the faith, Jude 3, and that Scripture also exposes, and by name, heretics and also false teaching, Galatians, 1-2 Timothy, Acts, The Gospels, Romans, 2 Peter &c.

As if the above apathy toward error and the authors of error weren't enough, we see others applauding the false notion that it is God's work when clearly it is the work of men of God to obey Scripture and expose them. Such apologists are shunned for doing this. Furthermore, those in churches who hold this apathy towards such a stand typically also hold to many grave theological errors themselves.

Then you worship a God much smaller than you claim.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Someone please explain to me the obsession with Joel Osteen on this board? If you don't care for Joel -- and I don't -- don't listen to/watch him. The gullible will be misled no matter how hard we try to keep them from doing so, and false prophets are numerous in these last of the Last Days.

I do not advocate failing to speak out against them. But around here, his name only starts arguments.

 

[SolaSaint]

Someone please explain to me the obsession with Joel Osteen on this board? If you don't care for Joel -- and I don't -- don't listen to/watch him. The gullible will be misled no matter how hard we try to keep them from doing so, and false prophets are numerous in these last of the Last Days.

I do not advocate failing to speak out against them. But around here, his name only starts arguments.

I admit I post a lot on Mr. Osteen but I feel it is because we always see him on the tube promoting his prosperity gospel and I also hear some in my church gloating over him. I feel called to warn brothers and sisters of false teaching.

 

[preacher4truth]

Someone please explain to me the obsession with Joel Osteen on this board? If you don't care for Joel -- and I don't -- don't listen to/watch him.

Agreed!!! To take it a step further, if these threads bother you as they apparently do then don't read them.

The gullible will be misled no matter how hard we try to keep them from doing so, and false prophets are numerous in these last of the Last Days. I do not advocate failing to speak out against them. But around here, his name only starts arguments.

Yes, it starts arguments. That is why this is called a debate forum.

We see it on here all the time 'I am so tired of the C/A debate threads'. 'I'm so tired of this, that and the other'. It's simple, don't read them. The same goes for any topic a person doesn't like - just don't read them. It is really THAT easy.

Back to the OP and my point. Php. 1:18 is one of the most MISUSED passages that persons will use to attempt to justify FALSE teachers when the context isn't addressing that, it is addressing MOTIVE.

For more on false teachers, (such as Joel) read Galatians 1, Jude 3, 2 Peter, Acts 20 &c and see that they ARE to be exposed and Paul nor Peter EVER gloried in false teachers preaching a false Christ nor did they encourage these apostates to 'Rock On'.

In fact the SCRIPTURAL objective was to expose and rebuke them, Eph. 5:11; 2 Timothy 4; Jude 3, 2 Peter -- to 'stop their mouths'; Titus 1:11, to 'cut them off' Gal. 5:12, and more, and it was NEVER to tell them to 'rock on'. That nonsense is a latter day misnomer, eisegetical fallacy and a huge failure to rightly handle the Word. :thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

ROTFL......:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[SolaSaint]

Did you know he charges to hear his preaching?

http://www.ticketliquidator.com/resultsgeneral.aspx?vo=true&kwds=Joel+Osteen

Not only do weak minded people flock to him, they also pay to hear his hogwash.

 

[saturneptune]

Sounds like Mr. Osteen shares our faith in Christ to me. But of course when YOU decide to continually attack those who have differences with you, you want to deny them a relationship with God? Give it a break. Perhaps you alone have the unique ability (that I thought only God Himself has) to peer into the heart of another and KNOW their standing before God. If Andy Stanley is an author of confusion, perhaps you need to investigate yourself and your ability to comprehend.

http://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

Good answer.............Threads like this make me very leery to post for one reason. We as flawed, sinful human beings have no idea if someone is saved or not. Many on this board think they do, but I could say a lot about them if the rules allowed based on the tone of their average post.

In fact, many that call themselves pastors or other Christian leaders on this board, if they talked to their congregation the way they post, they would be out the door, and deservedly so. Since you are a science-math type, I believe that you could confirm we have not yet discovered how to build a Holy Spirit detector to document salvation.

I do not care for Joel Olsteen's messages, but if I had to guess, I would say he is saved. That is a style thing to me. I need Scripture in a sermon. Then again, there in no doubt in my mind Jerry Falwell was saved, and I cannot stand him.

It is all a matter of conjecture and probability. I can say Hitler was lost based on what I have read, and that D James Kennedy is saved, but honestly, neither you, I or the theological geniuses on this board do not know. I think we will be surprised both ways when we reach glory.

It is a BB rule not to question the salvation of fellow posters, so why are these type of threads allowed? What is the difference?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

He affirms true christian doctrine sometimes, and other times denies it. What does this man believe?????

Who cares??? If you don't like what you're hearing, don't tune in. Personally I've never listened to the man. Read one of his books once, and upon seeing his theology and preaching style was decidedly Pentecostal, I determined I would not appreciate his ministry and there was no need to listen to him.

Like Andy Stanley a major author of confusion.

Charles and Andy don't make as big a deal out of their falling out as you do, and Andy is no more an "author of confusion" that Charles is, so why don't you just let this rant go, too? In fact, both rants? They grow old and tiresome.

 

[saturneptune]

Who cares??? If you don't like what you're hearing, don't tune in. Personally I've never listened to the man. Read one of his books once, and upon seeing his theology and preaching style was decidedly Pentecostal, I determined I would not appreciate his ministry and there was no need to listen to him.

Charles and Andy don't make as big a deal out of their falling out as you do, and Andy is no more an "author of confusion" that Charles is, so why don't you just let this rant go, too? In fact, both rants? They grow old and tiresome.

Very good points. It is like threads I have seen criticizing Billy Graham and other electronic preachers. First of all, I try to imagine what change in others for good my life has made compared to theirs, and of course, usually come to the conclusion it pales in comparison. Take Billy Graham for example. He might have said or done some off the wall things as he has aged, but think of the numbers of people that have come to Christ through his ministry. How many have come to Christ through my efforts? I can count on two hands the number of cold calls that have resulted in church membership in all the years I have visited.

The second point is, why do these TV preachers upset so many. It is like the posters do not understand the function of the off switch, or the Scripture that says dust off your shoes. In modern day terms that means, forget it, and move on.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Very good points. It is like threads I have seen criticizing Billy Graham and other electronic preachers. First of all, I try to imagine what change in others for good my life has made compared to theirs, and of course, usually come to the conclusion it pales in comparison. Take Billy Graham for example. He might have said or done some off the wall things as he has aged, but think of the numbers of people that have come to Christ through his ministry. How many have come to Christ through my efforts? I can count on two hands the number of cold calls that have resulted in church membership in all the years I have visited.

The second point is, why do these TV preachers upset so many. It is like the posters do not understand the function of the off switch, or the Scripture that says dust off your shoes. In modern day terms that means, forget it, and move on.

I keep misplacing that darn like button ...

 

[Baptist4life]

Reasons to speak out against Joel Osteen:

http://unitedforawakening.com/joel-osteen-rebukes-apostles-paul-peter-and-john/

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falseteachers/joel-osteen.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/joel_osteen.htm

http://www.religiontoday.com/column...-gospel-of-affirmation-without-salvation.html

http://truthvanguard.com/2011/02/18/joel-osteens-deceptions/




......and many more. You all may be comfortable with his heretical preaching, but I'm not.