Joel Osteen

[Marcia]

Originally posted by music4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
The problem with Osteen is more than that he is a motivational speaker. He holds to some WF doctrines, such as Jesus having to go to hell to fight Satan (I heard this in his Easter message), and that your thoughts affect reality (i.e., you can make someone die with your thoughts - I heard this with my own ears in one of his messages). In fact, a lot of what he says is very New Thought (mind science).

I wasn't aware of it being a "New Thought" (mind science) thing...when the Old Testament speaks about the tongue.

Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.


Pro 21:23 Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles.

Isa 3:8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory.

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

1Peter 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

I have always heard watch what you say. The bible warns us about the tongue. I don't know if its a new thought, but its a teaching that has been put under the table and hid for too long. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, our words have consequences. But this has nothing to do with altering reality with our thoughts or words. Altering reality with our thoughts is not in the Bible; this is a form of sorcery/occult magick.

Do you believe it is biblical to sit there and think: "My sister/whoever will give me a new car" and believe that if you think or say this enough, she will do it? Do you believe that if you are afraid someone sick will die, they will die because you thought it? Do you say words to alter reality, such as affirmations? This is what New Thought is.

Incantations and spells in witchcraft and visualization in ceremonial magick are based on the principles that you alter reality with your will through words, rituals, and thoughts. This is partly what Osteen teaches. That is why he says in his book that you must say God's blessings out loud, or you don't get them. This is NOT biblical; it's occultic.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Exodus 20:24b In all places where I record my name, I will come unto thee and I will bless thee.

Doesn't say you have to invoke Him, but just be where His name is recorded.

No magic needs to be involved in receiving a blessing from the Lord.

 

[eschatologist]

On The Larry King Show(CNN) he would NOT admit that those who fail to accept Christ would not be saved, even though he was asked repeatedly over and over again by Larry King. He received a lot of flack for that later.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Marcia,

You said, 'This is partly what Osteen teaches. That is why he says in his book that you must say God's blessings out loud, or you don't get them. This is NOT biblical; it's occultic.'

[Quote} I thought we have the right to stand on the promises coming from the Lord, whether we say them in the quietness of our hearts or verbally.

I guess you never sang in your church, "Standing On The Promises.' '. . . of Christ my King.

Let's just pick apart every man or woman of God as our 'indoor sport.'

Anyone want a go at it for Rev. Dr. Stanley from Atlanta or Joyce Meyers? He did not remarry and yet some of the Pharisaical Baptists are still running him into the ground.

I always say until you can get the crowds out to hear the Word's of Jesus our Lord, as some of these men and women, then it is best to keep our mouths closed.

What say the rest of the people? [/Quote].

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Anyone want a go at it for Rev. Dr. Stanley from Atlanta or Joyce Meyers? He did not remarry and yet some of the Pharisaical Baptists are still running him into the ground.

I always say until you can get the crowds out to hear the Word's of Jesus our Lord, as some of these men and women, then it is best to keep our mouths closed.

What say the rest of the people?

Since I have been asked about Joyce Meyer so often I find it necessary to comment on her teaching. She is known as being one of the top women speakers, one who tells it like it is with a frank but challenging way of putting things. She is an enigma in that she has some very good practical information from experience and the Scripture. So there are good portions in her teaching and there are some bad interpretations and experiences from her teachings that are to be avoided. Meyer may not be completely engulfed in word faith teaching but she is yoked with word faith teachers (in fellowship with Creflo Dollar, and Kenneth Copeland Copeland’s magazine, The Believer’s Voice of Victory, has carried some of her articles) and her writings and teachings have certainly been influenced by their theology. In her broadcast the first week of January 2005 she interviewed a man giving testimony to Kenneth Hagin who is known for spreading the word/faith heresy to his disciples.

By the way: Dollar believes we are little gods as does Eddie Long. Bynum thinks she is a prophetess who can pass on the anointing to anything she wants. T. D. Jakes does not believe in the Trinity and teaches psychology. White is a prosperity teacher who has a mixture of various aberrant trendy doctrines. The word faith associations do rub off on her teachings, this is why she is comfortable to be speaking with these people.

She makes her position clear by saying “words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow. We need to warfare with words. I believe that praise and worship is warfare. We talked about this last night, how when we are praising and worshipping God that there's actually a, an odor that comes off of us that is offensive to the enemy. And I don’t know if you ever had the opportunity to smell a demon possessed person but I have, and I tell you it is a stench; and I was saying about that this morning and I thought you know people that are demon possessed have an offensive odor to me and I’m glad because I am holy ghost possessed that I’ve got an offensive odor to the devil.” (broadcasted on the Bible Answerman Jan.2003)

http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac17.htm

You asked about Joyce Meyers?
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

I do not believe your allegation about Rev. T.D. Jakes. I have heard him preach several times on television and never heard him say anything that was not orthodox in belief.

Is there any pastor or evangelist who you like?

Regards,
Ray

 

[steaver]

I think Rev Jakes speaks about the Holy Spirit and speaks about the Father, but I heard that he believes Jesus is all three and He alone is playing each role independently. This is what I heard, I never went looking for myself.

God Bless!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
DHK,

I do not believe your allegation about Rev. T.D. Jakes. I have heard him preach several times on television and never heard him say anything that was not orthodox in belief.
Ray

Not every TV evangelist gets up and announces: "Now listen up, Here is all the heresy that I believe in:"
Neither would such webpages as I directed you post such information if it were not true. Slander and libel make good fodder for law suits.
What you think is of no consequence. Try researching the truth about these preachers instead. Let us not deal in opionions, but rather in facts.
DHK

 

[ccrobinson]

Ray Berrian wrote:

I always say until you can get the crowds out to hear the Word's of Jesus our Lord, as some of these men and women, then it is best to keep our mouths closed.

So, it's Ok if a preacher preaches a false gospel as long as they use the Bible sometimes? If they're charismatic enough to draw a big crowd, you're Ok with that even if they don't believe a basic doctrine like the Deity of Christ? You're Ok with preaching to a big crowd even if the preaching is full of Word of Faith nonsense? If there is any teaching that speaks to itching ears, it's Word of Faith.

 

[JRG39402]

I think Charles Stanley is pretty good.

 

[tamborine lady]

Dear Guests,

If you are here and you are reading this, the you're interested in the subject.

Marcia said:That is why he says in his book that you must say God's blessings out loud, or you don't get them. This is NOT biblical; it's occultic.

Tam says: It is not occult to say things that are not as though they were.

Romans 4-17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Marcia, if we go by what you said, you are calling God a lier! Is that the case?

Like Music posted,

Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

That scripture means you get what you say.

There is a reason why the word death is mentioned first in that scripture, it is because it is much easier to speak defeat, and stuff that is not of faith, than it is to say things that are not as though they were.



Matthew 15-18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

If the bad things we speak can defile us, then it stands tp reason that if we speak good things that would be better!!

Then in Rev 1-3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

In this case it is talking about the book of Revelation, and the prophecy that is in it. But if you hear it, then someone has to say it.

Phil 4-8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

If we are to think on these things, then that would be what comes out of our mouthes.

That being said, we don't use this to "claim" new corvettes, mansions, etc.

But if I want to claim that I am healed, and I say it out loud in faith, am I to believe that is wrong?

1 Peter 2-24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

If you don't believe it, then don't say it.

Perhaps that is why some people never see victory, because they go around with a mealy mouthed attitude spewing out unbelief in the things God can do, with a defeated attitude.

Selah,

Tam

 

[Chemnitz]

I have been trying to hold my tongue and not join in the fun in bashing the Osteen, but I can't sit by while people tear apart beautiful words of Gospel to defend the feel good heresies of that man.

Marcia said:That is why he says in his book that you must say God's blessings out loud, or you don't get them. This is NOT biblical; it's occultic.

Tam says: It is not occult to say things that are not as though they were.

Romans 4-17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

It helps when people actually keep things in their context. Romans makes no mention of speaking things out to get some material blessings. Abraham did nothing to recieve the blessing, he didn't speak it, he didn't get through the power of positive thinking. He got it because God promised it. He trusted that God would give it because God had given Him reason to trust, not because He said it out loud. If Osteen actually said what he said, and I don't doubt it after hearing him speak, he is trying to turn the Promises of God into a mystical incantation.

Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

That scripture means you get what you say.

Actually, Matt 12:36 sheds some light on this Proverb. "Matthew 12:36-37 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." " It means that those who are righteous will reflect it in their speach. Not name it, claim it.

That being said, we don't use this to "claim" new corvettes, mansions, etc.

That I find hard to believe when people such as Joyce Meyers are under investigation for tax fraud, live in 4 million dollar homes, buy multimillion dollar homes for their kids, and have salaries that dwarf the budget of most churches.

These people are preaching a feel good psyco-babble that is taking advantage of desperate people and causing great distress in those who are suffering and wondering do they have faith? Because they are naming it just like Mr. Osteen and Mrs. Meyers said but they sure aren't getting better.

The excuse for crowds is lame, I wouldn't be surprised if the feel good false prophets of the OT times drew large crowds themselves.

 

[tamborine lady]

Think what you want my friend. I will not recant my post!! Nothing I said was about so-called "psyco babel".

I am also not talking about the high profile people you see on T.V. I don't know what they think or do, I just know what the word tells me.

Peace,

Tam

 

[Chemnitz]

I am not surprised.

 

[tamborine lady]

Not surprised about what??

 

[Chemnitz]

That you won't recant in the face of the obviousness that you are maintaining a faulty position.

Osteen has condemned himself as a false prophet by denying that Jesus is the only source of salvation.

True you didn't have psycho-babble just bad exegesis.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
Osteen has condemned himself as a false prophet by denying that Jesus is the only source of salvation.

I'm not defending Osteen in the least, but where did he say this?

 

[tamborine lady]

My position is not faulty, it's your understanding that is flawed!

Peace,

Tam

P.S. I'm not defending Osteen either, I am defending the Bible, and what it says.

 

[Chemnitz]

He denied it in the interview on Larry King.

Once again Tam if you are going to assert something then you need to prove it. I may be overly blunt but at least I had the courtesy to back up my assertions, while you on the other hand...

 

[Marcia]

Tam, the passages you cite do not support what Osteen teaches. As Chemnitz said, those passages do not say we must say things blessings in order to get them.

As I posted earlier, our words do have consequences, as the Bible tells us. If I gossip or blaspheme or lie, etc. there will be consequences. But the consequences are to the words I am saying and their effects on the truth or on people, etc. It's not that the words themselves have a magical power or that I can have power by using certain words. That is occultic -- it's one of the basic foundational beliefs of the occult.