Joel Osteen

[Tom Butler]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
Osteen has condemned himself as a false prophet by denying that Jesus is the only source of salvation

Later that week on his website, Joel apologized for being wishy-washy on Larry King. He affirmed the centrality of Christ as the only way to salvation.

Tom B.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
He denied it in the interview on Larry King.

I saw him on LK and don't recall that. I remember him being a bit vague, but I don't recall anything outright heretical or scripturally false. Again, I'm not defending him, just seeking accuracy. If anyone has a text transcript, I'm all ears.

 

[Tom Butler]

Tam says: It is not occult to say things that are not as though they were.

Romans 4-17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were

In that passage it is the omnipotent Creator of the Universe who calls those things which aren't as though they were. There's no warrant for us puny human beings to do the same. That's why it's occultic for humans to do it.

Tom B.

 

[Brian30755]

Johnv, here's a LINK to one transcipt of Joel on Larry King. I don't know if it's the one you guys are talking about or not.

 

[Johnv]

Yep, that's the one I remember. In fact, he acknowleges that there IS condemnation, but says he doesn't feel it's his place to condemn.

We can say what we want about Osteen, but we cannot say, based on this interview, that he denies that Jesus is the only source of salvation.

Again, I'm not defending him. I only seek accuracy.

 

[Marcia]

Osteen does teach that Jesus had to go to hell and fight Satan. I heard him say this in his Easter message. This is a Word Faith heresy that denies the sufficiency of the atonement on the cross. Osteen's father was Word Faith and Osteen has apparently retained and taken on a lot of the Word Faith teachings, which include the beliefs that our words and thoughts can alter reality by their (our) own power.

 

[tamborine lady]

Again, I am NOT defending Osteen, but I am defending the bible and what it says.

All I can do is post the scripture that proves what I believe. If you can read it, it should be understandable to you.

The scripture in KJV reads: Mark 11-23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

In the Revised Standard Version it says: Mark 11- 23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

World English Bible: Mark 11-23 For most assuredly I tell you, whoever may tell this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and doesn't doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is happening; he shall have whatever he says.24 Therefore I tell you, all things whatever you pray and ask for, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.

I can't make it any plainer.

There is nothing wrong with believing that God will answer your prayers. (saying what you are asking for).

Another factor that goes into it is found in James 4-3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

That is why I said it doesn't work if you ask for a new Porsch etc. Because the heart is not right.

I pray that the Holy Spirit will enlighten those whom He will. As for the rest.

1 Cor 14-38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

That simply means if you don't want to understand, then go ahead and be unlearned in that area!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[tamborine lady]

If some people are saying that God gave them 12 limosines and 6 mansions, the reality is that they probably bilked some unsuspecting saps into giving them a lot of money to buy them. Doesn't mean that God had anything to do with it.

John 15-7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Sounds like to me, if your heart is right, and if you have forgiven everyone that you should,and you are not asking for the wrong thing, then, You can have what you say!

Peace,

Tam

 

[xdisciplex]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:


John 15-7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Sounds like to me, if your heart is right, and if you have forgiven everyone that you should,and you are not asking for the wrong thing, then, You can have what you say!

Hi Tam!

What about this?

Jam 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Do you think you can ask God for a Ferrari and he has to do it?

 

[Chemnitz]

I can't make it any plainer.

There is nothing wrong with believing that God will answer your prayers. (saying what you are asking for).

Another factor that goes into it is found in James 4-3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

That is why I said it doesn't work if you ask for a new Porsch etc. Because the heart is not right.

That I can agree with for the most part, you did create confusion jumping in where you did because you sounded a lot like the name it, claim it crowd with your previous posts.

People forget God gives us what we need, not necessarily what we want.

 

[tamborine lady]

xdisciplex, you must not have read my post in full.

read it again, and you'll see that I did quote that.


There is nothing wrong with believing that God will answer your prayers. (saying what you are asking for).

Another factor that goes into it is found in James 4-3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Go read it again and absorb it this time!!

Sorry, no Ferrari!!

Selah,

Tam

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Sounds like to me, if your heart is right, and if you have forgiven everyone that you should,and you are not asking for the wrong thing, then, You can have what you say!

Peace,

Tam

No, that is not what the Scriptures teach. You cannot have what you say. Your words do not command God. God is not a puppet that you carry around in your pocket controlled by the strings of your hands and manipulated every time you speak forth a word just the way you want. Speak a word and you manipulate your god, your own little genie, to do whatever you want. If that is you, you know not the God of the Bible. Man does not command God (what a blasphemous thought!). It is God that is sovereign, and answers prayer according to His sovereign will. He will not be manipulated and cannot be manipulated. He is omniscient--knowing the end from the beginning. He answers prayer according to His will (1John 5:14). It is not what we say. It is what we pray, and if we pray according to his will. Do we have God's will in mind when we pray? "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." That is not an easy prayer to pray. Jesus commanded his disciples to pray after that manner.
DHK

 

[xdisciplex]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:


Sorry, no Ferrari!!

DOH!

 

[Marcia]

Tam, you still don't seem to get the point we are making here about Osteen. Your post was about God answering prayers. We are talking about a man-made technique of speaking aloud what you want and because you have spoken it aloud then God must do it. This is NOT biblical.

Osteen also teaches that you can alter material reality with your thoughts. This is also Word Faith (and goes back to New Thought, and even further back to Neoplatonism and the resulting theories of occult sorcery).

 

[music4Him]

What about the scripture that speaks of calling those things which be not as though they were?
The word "calling" would mean spoken? But as Tam has stated
----------------------------------------------------
James 4-3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
----------------------------------------------------

 

[Daughter]

Originally posted by music4Him:
What about the scripture that speaks of calling those things which be not as though they were?
The word "calling" would mean spoken?
----------------------------------------------------

I would say that the Scripture in question was referring to Abraham in that he believed the report that God gave him(and it was counted to him as righteousness), that even in old age, he and Sarah would have a chid.

Therefore, he did not just have a desire and "call it into being" - God made His promise first, so it was obviously God's will and He wasn't asking amiss

 

[Ray Berrian]

I think style of preaching is much of the issue here.

I am sure Peter, Paul and Apollos' style of preaching and even content was much different from each other. Peter was a less articulate spokesperson and poorer example for the Lord while the latter two men were more scholarly; but, always the basic truth of the Gospel was preached by all three men.

Rev. Osteen invites people to receive Christ always at the close of his telecast, which is good because he is reaching a lot of non-Christians by his personal presentation as a minister.

Just because he is not hammering Biblical truth to you does not insure that he is not meeting other people's needs.

I keep hearing that any pastor named here is blasted for not doing or having this or that in his or her message. When you and yours can reach as many souls for Jesus, please offer up your esteemed and public name.

 

[Chemnitz]

Ray, this is not an argument over style, this is about the fact the man is preaching blatantly false teachings. Your right he doesn't need to always give spiritual meat, particularly if he is trying to reach those who haven't even tasted spiritual milk. But he isn't even offering them spiritual milk. Instead, he is offering them spiritual Mickey D's, it taste good but it isn't good for them.

He is teaching people to look for the answers inside of themselves not to look to Christ. To this man Jesus is an afterthought, something he throws in to give the appearance of Christian belief.

Numbers is a poor way to excuse poor preaching. Numbers are meaningless if the message isn't good and salutary. As I said before Baal's feel good prophets had lots of people listening. Mr Osteen isn't any different.

 

[Bro Tony]

The issue that has been raised in the last two pages is the difference between biblical Christianity that believes God can and does answer prayers, according to His will and a meta-physical view of the Scriptures that one can speak their wills and desires into existence. That God spoke things into existence is clearly taught in the Scripture, but we are not God, we are not creative beings. In order for that to be so we would have to be completely self-sustaining. We depend completely on God for our very existence. It may surprize some, but we havent even had an original thought. The huge problem of the word/faith movement is that it is more like christian science than it is biblical Christianity, it has more to do with metaphysics than biblical faith.

Bro Tony

 

[Ray Berrian]

Your allusion to the prophets of Baal and Rev. Osteen is a sub-christian judgment. You are allowed your personal view but we all have one. At least Osteen is not telling people to study the Bible and the Book of Mormon. This would be totally wrong.

Fundamentalist preacher have been hammering on the subject of sin for mega years. Only an idiot does not know what is right and wrong. People like to hear how to improve their Christian life and their interrelations with husband and wife and others around them.

We could probably preach the same words as Pastors Osteen, Hinn or Copeland not not get the same amount of people coming out to hear us.

The Lord chooses who He can best speak his truth through; it is not your decision.

Osteen invites people to receive Jesus. To me this is doing the right thing.

Many of you have a critical spirit which is unlike Jesus our Lord.