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John 1: verse 12...alone? or does 1:13 explain it?
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I understand the meaning. But it is useless and juvenile. This is a discussion board. If you disagree then you should voice your disagreement or keep quiet rather than rate a post in what you believe would be a negative response.
A benefit can be gained in discussing a disagreement. There is nothing to be gained in simply saying you do.
Useless and juvenile? I have exegeted some verses and all you have done is come back at me a la' Van with a bunch of nun uh and taint so retorts. I have shown you the word 'world' rarely(that one place in John 1:10b is the lone exception I can find) means all whoever lived, all without exception. Here are some more verses for you to chew on...
3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;[Colossians 1]
Paul is here praising the church at Colossae for their faith in the Lord and their love for the saints. He says this is bearing fruit in all the world. So, this can not mean everybody whoever lived, all without exception, seeing many have died, are dying now, and will die later, never hearing the gospel of the Christ. Alliance for the unreached has estimated that 3.2 BILLION ppl(~ 40% of the world's population) have never heard the gospel, and this was from April 2018. Here's the link...
'More Than One-Third of Humanity Will Never Hear About Jesus': Day to Reach the Unreached Set for May 20
1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.[Romans 1]
How about here? Paul is saying their faith is being proclaimed throughout the WHOLE world. Yet, as of now, over 3 BILLION ppl have never heard the gospel of the Christ. How can they know this Christ if they never heard of Him? How can the WHOLE world mean all whoever lived, all without exception, if all whoever lived, all without exception, have never known one thing about the Christ?
You misunderstand.
I was refering specificially to the quoted text and meant my comment to remain in the context I provided.
You have removed my comments out of the context I provided and applied my words to your explanation of the word "world". I am sure this was accidental (a minunderstanding) rather than an incident of dishonesty.
I have addressed your interpretation (in a different post). To reiterate, you are working under a fallacy. You are falsely presenting those who reject your interpretation of "world" to hold the word means "all men without exception". I have already offered a more biblical definition.
But the problem you have also illustrated is that you've said the word has various meanings in the same text (in John 1). You are determining when it means one thing and when it means another. That is, you are making the passage dependent on your theories rather than forming your understanding from the passage itself.
That is eisegesis, not exegesis. There is a difference. When one exegetes a text that person takes their lead from the text itself. You are expounding on the text and giving us what you believe must be the implied meaning of the author based on your theological traditions.
That does not mean your conclusions are wrong insofar as linited atonement. But it does mean you are arguing from fallacy. Your method is wrong.
Still no one stepping forward to explain verse 12, and 13 together.
Verse divisions are "man made" for reference. It is an error to divide the sentence into two separate thoughts.
There was the true Light which coming into the world enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, who were born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor the will of man, but of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
We can't look at either passage as a proof that one must be born again in order to receive Christ. But we can use the passage to prove that those who have received Him have been born of God and have the right to become children of God.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Well, one answer could be they came to Him, received Him and chose to believe on Him on their own free will, Then He (Jesus) turns them over to God the Father who regenerates them with no help or intervention from man (no Jewish birth, no circumcision, no mikvah, no baptism...no man ritual).
Another could be that God in His foreknowledge saw who it is that would receive the Son of God and elected the elect on that condition, 12 and 13 following in the process of time.
There is no reason for verse 13 except to clarify how this takes place. There is no room for doubt or speculation.
It is written that we can know God is completely sovereign over salvation.
Those two false theories are not supported by verse 13, people spend more time trying to divert and avoid these texts than to trust they mean exactly what they say.
Itl, I did not see your comments on verse 13 of jn.1.
Maybe you can help us out.
Maybe you can help us out.
Hmm you indicated no one would/could show the relationship between verses 12 and 13 so I stepped in and offered two.
I am not saying I believe my responses but they are at very least a response to your observation for which I accepted as a challenge..
But apart from that why cant the elect of God be chosen according to His foreknowledge rather than His unconditional decree?
Hello Hank,
Yes I know what you were doing,lol.
A correct view of biblical foreknowledge...ie, not what He did Foreknow, but rather WHOM He did foreknow e
Demonstrates the unconditional decree.
Yes IMO that is the essence of C versus A theology.
Ephesians 1
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
So Unconditional Election seems to have a condition : the counsel of his own will:
Unfortunately (or not) the full selection criteria are not revealed apart from the fact that we were in a hopeless and helpless state of being.- and then another revelation in verse 14 of the ultimate reason of the elect.
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
….in the same vein as Acts 13:48:
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Its either that God foreknew due to Him causing us to be chosen in Christ, or else He knew that we would decide to believe in Jesus ourselves. Either election by His will or based upon our will!
ITL sometimes seems to be halting between two positions. There are posts that we could agree upon and then there are those other drive by shooting kind. I think if we get him motivated to post in detail he himself will see his inconsistency.
IMO, John 1:10 same 'arrangement' as John 18:20.
BTW
GOD also foreknew Paul in Benjamin, who came from, Israel who came from Isaac, who came from Abraham, who came from________________ who came from Seth -----
Rabbit trail. Because, Cain had killed Abel. Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Who came from Adam.
Why did Abel have to die and die childless?
Just an interesting thought, I thought.
GOD also foreknew Paul in Benjamin, who came from, Israel who came from Isaac, who came from Abraham, who came from________________ who came from Seth -----
Rabbit trail. Because, Cain had killed Abel. Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Who came from Adam.
Why did Abel have to die and die childless?
Just an interesting thought, I thought.
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