John 12:32-43

[BobRyan]

I refuse to accept the words "enables them" as that may mean merely conveying or transferring power to men so they can either use it or not use it to come. The Father sends the Holy Spirit to "draw" them by creating faith in them. The term "draw" or the Greek "elkuo" is NEVER ONCE used by Scripture writers to suggest or infer that power or ability is being transferred from God to the one drawn for POTENTIAL use by man to come to God through the gospel. NEVER! To "draw" means to come and is drawing and coming are inseperable simletaneous actions. The term "draw" denotes the source of power whereas to "come' denotes the consequence of that power being exerted.

1. NO text says "Draw means to come"
2. NO text says "All drawn will come to Christ"
3. Calvinism's arbitrary selection model makes God the cause of His own lament.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Calvinism does not survive paying close attention to John 12.


John 12
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. 34 So the crowd answered him, "We have heard from the Law that the Christ remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of Man?"

35 So Jesus said to them, "The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going.

(An outward sign of the drawing of all - the light is among you)

36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them.


(The desired response to drawing is that the ones drawn would choose to believe after being drawn. Christ is not zaaapping them into belief - he is urging them to choose belief in vs 36)

Calvinism's arbitrary selection doctrine does not survive this point.


37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him,


Here again is illustrated the drawing in outward signs, and also the choice of "some" to not believe (while others obviously chose to believe because of the signs done.)

It is always the "Drawing" that is then followed by the observation of those who choose to accept - vs those who choose to reject.



38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: "Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, 40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them." 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.

42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

So here again we have the choices of man -in response to the "Drawing of all mankind" to Christ.

At no point doe we have "they did not believe because God did not draw them".

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvinism does not survive paying close attention to John 12.


John 12
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. 34 So the crowd answered him, "We have heard from the Law that the Christ remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of Man?"

35 So Jesus said to them, "The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going.

(An outward sign of the drawing of all - the light is among you)

36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them.


(The desired response to drawing is that the ones drawn would choose to believe after being drawn. Christ is not zaaapping them into belief - he is urging them to choose belief in vs 36)

Calvinism's arbitrary selection doctrine does not survive this point.


37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him,


Here again is illustrated the drawing in outward signs, and also the choice of "some" to not believe (while others obviously chose to believe because of the signs done.)

It is always the "Drawing" that is then followed by the observation of those who choose to accept - vs those who choose to reject.



38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: "Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, 40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them." 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.

42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

So here again we have the choices of man -in response to the "Drawing of all mankind" to Christ.

At no point doe we have "they did not believe because God did not draw them".

God does NOT extend 'saving Grace' towards all sinners, for he saves by death of jesus thsoe whom sins were atoned for in full by that act!

Jesus said ALL the father give to Him, Draw to Him shall be saved, NONE will reject Him, for HIS sheep know his voice...

How much clearer can this be?