John 14:12, Do You Believe On Jesus?

[DHK]

All of the things you categorized and listed consist of talking to people. Are you intentionally or purposefully omitting the material deeds Jesus did which He stated in John 12:14 would be both replicated as "same" and exceeded as "greater" by Real Believers?

You mean John 14:12:
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

In John 12:14 Jesus comes riding into Jerusalem on the foal of an ass, as a King.

Do not challenge others with this verse unless you can demonstrate it with your own life, lest you be a hypocrite.

 

[Stegley]

You started the thread. Answer your own questions if you expect others to give answer. I don't think you have an answer.

Please consider and believe!

John3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John3:17 - "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

John3:18 - "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John3:19 - "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

John3:20 - "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

John3:21 - "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Whenever someone other than yourself, Steave, comes up with a thought, question, or insight which touches one of your buttons, please always remember to get defensive, find an ad hominem, and obfuscate the question by babbling some scripture. Doing this will preserve your dignity.

 

[Stegley]

You mean John 14:12:
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

In John 12:14 Jesus comes riding into Jerusalem on the foal of an ass, as a King.

Do not challenge others with this verse unless you can demonstrate it with your own life, lest you be a hypocrite.

Nice job. Now you will have to forgive me for something else. I assume that as a missionary your agency has in place a policy to easily forgive the stupid natives who speak and act on error. Remember, large minded forgiveness, as part of gracious kindness, is a large part of being patronizing and condescending to needy hearts.

Lol.

 

[steaver]

Whenever someone other than yourself, Steave, comes up with a thought, question, or insight which touches one of your buttons, please always remember to get defensive, find an ad hominem, and obfuscate the question by babbling some scripture. Doing this will preserve your dignity.

Scripture is not "Babel". I pray you would repent of your blasphemies against God.

You started the thread. Answer your own questions if you expect others to give answer. I don't think you have an answer.

And we all see that you have no answer, and you have been asked repeatedly.

 

[plain_n_simple]

What I don't understand though, is that if you particularly have this gift of laying on of hands and healing people, then why are you not visiting hospitals everyday? Isn't there a difference in all Christians having the faith to pray for healing, and maybe God will, maybe God will not, and a Christian like an Apostle having "the" gift of healing were that Apostle can lay hands on anyone at any time and it is accomplished everytime??

I'm sure you have had opportunity many times to lay hands on another and pray for healing, does the person always get healed at your command/prayer??

You cannot rejoice. It is a walk, faith to faith, it builds. It happens about 5 out of 100 now, used to be only two. But when that 1st miracle happened I was convinced. There is nothing like answered prayer thanks Jesus!

 

[plain_n_simple]

Interesting. In another thread, it was less than 20 seconds. Here it is "minutes." Which is it? Yeah, he'll answer that question, pronto!

Not.

You cannot rejoice, get some love from Him!

 

[steaver]

You cannot rejoice. It is a walk, faith to faith, it builds. It happens about 5 out of 100 now, used to be only two. But when that 1st miracle happened I was convinced. There is nothing like answered prayer thanks Jesus!

Yes, Amen! Praise Jesus for your testimony!

However, I believe you brought up the issue of cessationism and associated it with your testimony, correct? I was addressing this connection you made. Do you see the difference between us praying in faith for healing and say Peter laying on hands and God healing ALL??

 

[plain_n_simple]

Yes, Amen! Praise Jesus for your testimony!

However, I believe you brought up the issue of cessationism and associated it with your testimony, correct? I was addressing this connection you made. Do you see the difference between us praying in faith for healing and say Peter laying on hands and God healing ALL??

There is no difference. When you lay hands on someone, you pray. Peter had to walk it out until everyone was healed everytime. He did not start out as perfect. He learned as he went. That is the goal. I have not been perfected, but watching someone healed is amazing! It builds and builds and is all good for His glory.

 

[DHK]

There is no difference. When you lay hands on someone, you pray. Peter had to walk it out until everyone was healed everytime. He did not start out as perfect. He learned as he went. That is the goal. I have not been perfected, but watching someone healed is amazing! It builds and builds and is all good for His glory.

Consider Scripture:

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

In verse 28 the various gifts are listed, and they are listed in order of importance. Notice:
FIRST apostles,
SECONDARILY, prophets,
THIRDLY, teachers,
AFTER THAT, miracles,
THEN, gifts of healings...diversitings of tongues.

Notice that the gift of healing is in the last group, with speaking in tongues being the least important of all the gifts, and yet these gifts are given the greatest importance in our society today. Of greater importance than these gifts is the gift of teaching which we still have today according to Eph.4:11.
We don't have the apostles today.
Prophecy has ceased (1Cor.13:8), and thus the function of a prophet has ceased. The sign gifts have also ceased which include most of the rest of the gifts. They were given primarily to the apostles as signs of their authenticity and that their message was authentic. They were also given as revelatory gifts.
The revelation is complete. We have the completed Word of God.
The apostles are dead. They don't need to be authenticated as God's messengers.
The gifts therefore have ceased.

There is no one on this planet that can heal as Peter healed in Acts 5:16. I have given that challenge many times, and no one can ever point to a single individual who has that gift, where one person can heal ALL who come to him without bias. It doesn't happen.

The gift of tongues is the gift of speaking in languages. Even Charismatic missionaries have to learn the language of foreign nations to which they are called. God doesn't miraculously bestow upon them the gift of that language of that nation. That would be a demonstration of the real gift of tongues/languages--not some gibberish which we hear today.

I have seen no one demonstrate the gift of miracles--no one.
Can you walk on water; calm the seas; feed five thousand with a few fish and loaves of bread, turn water into wine, etc.
No one can do these things. There is no such thing as the gift of miracles today. It has ceased.

 

[plain_n_simple]

In you experience it does not exist. If miracles did happen around you, you have to rationalize why you dont do them, then use the bible to shore up your unbelief, or be out of a ob lol.

 

[DHK]

In you experience it does not exist. If miracles did happen around you, you have to rationalize why you dont do them, then use the bible to shore up your unbelief, or be out of a ob lol.

The Charismatic bases his belief on his experience. Experience is his foundation and then doctrine arises out of it.
My foundation is the Bible. My experiences follow after.
The Bible teaches that these "gifts" have ceased. It does not teach that miracles in and of themselves have ceased, but that the gift has ceased. In my post I gave examples of how they have ceased. If you can give examples from my post of those who have the gift perhaps I will believe. But to my knowledge there is no one alive that has these "gifts." No one to verify or authenticate them either.

 

[plain_n_simple]

The Charismatic bases his belief on his experience. Experience is his foundation and then doctrine arises out of it.
My foundation is the Bible. My experiences follow after.
The Bible teaches that these "gifts" have ceased. It does not teach that miracles in and of themselves have ceased, but that the gift has ceased. In my post I gave examples of how they have ceased. If you can give examples from my post of those who have the gift perhaps I will believe. But to my knowledge there is no one alive that has these "gifts." No one to verify or authenticate them either.

That which is "perfect", has not come. It is to your advantage that the teaching that gifts have ceased, you have no excuse. Your experience does not reflect biblical teachings, a twist of definition has excused.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

That which is "perfect", has not come.

Yes "it" has, and I emphasize "it" because the article before the Greek teleios indicates that word is a neuter -- without gender reference and indicative of an inanimate object or thought. Jesus does not fit that description, therefore the passage is not talking about Jesus, as I'm sure you believe. It is talking about the canon of Scripture, which when completed in 96 AD, rendered both the "signs and wonders" gifts, as confirming the message of Christ, and the need for knowledge, independent of the written word, obsolete. The changed lives of the Christian and the inerrant Word of God provide the evidence of the efficacy of Christ.

 

[plain_n_simple]

A face is not an it either. The face is Jesus.

 

[plain_n_simple]

I can tell you this, there is a shift already happening in the body. Churches not walking in the power will have their candlestick removed.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

A face is not an it either. The face is Jesus.

You can come face-to-face with your destiny, your past, your fears, or as Thayer's states, outward circumstances or external conditions. You can come face to face with the Bible. "Face to face" does not have to refer to meeting a person. It was more often applied in the Greek to circumstances and objects than it was to meeting a person.

I can tell you this, there is a shift already happening in the body. Churches not walking in the power will have their candlestick removed.

I don't see anything in Revelation about "walking in the power." That's an absurd statement garnered from your illogical doctrine that removes personality from the Holy Spirit and makes Him a thing to be craved, captured, used and abused.

 

[prophet]

In 2013: 4 people, that I can recall specifically, on whom i physically laid hands along with other elders, were healed. One of cáncer.

At an unchurched man's house, who accepted my work as "in the name of Jesus" watched as we prayed, and the weather over his house obeyed, in direct opposition to the t.v. reports in the next room. I found his house's problem, that several contractors and insurance inspectors had missed. The ins. co. honored my assessment, paíd him 4 times what they were going to, and I did the work for that amount...1/2 the estimated cost by the next lowest bid. That Man and I talk regularly. He is in church now, and claims that God visited his home. He knows that God changed the weather, as his servants asked.

There are many more miracles, and I havent told the 1/2 of the ones that I relayed.

The illiterate are now reading. The ghetto bastards are married, raising children for God.
The addict is free. Jaime is now the program Cook, an employee, well beloved. I sent her there in July.
One of several, that had a radical life change.

Havent raised any dead, but sinners have been given life.

I have no idea if this fits your criteria, you seem to be an Azusa St. Wannabe seeking occasion against Baptists.
But this is my life, praise The Lord.

 

[plain_n_simple]

In 2013: 4 people, that I can recall specifically, on whom i physically laid hands along with other elders, were healed. One of cáncer.

At an unchurched man's house, who accepted my work as "in the name of Jesus" watched as we prayed, and the weather over his house obeyed, in direct opposition to the t.v. reports in the next room. I found his house's problem, that several contractors and insurance inspectors had missed. The ins. co. honored my assessment, paíd him 4 times what they were going to, and I did the work for that amount...1/2 the estimated cost by the next lowest bid. That Man and I talk regularly. He is in church now, and claims that God visited his home. He knows that God changed the weather, as his servants asked.

There are many more miracles, and I havent told the 1/2 of the ones that I relayed.

The illiterate are now reading. The ghetto bastards are married, raising children for God.
The addict is free. Jaime is now the program Cook, an employee, well beloved. I sent her there in July.
One of several, that had a radical life change.

Havent raised any dead, but sinners have been given life.

I have no idea if this fits your criteria, you seem to be an Azusa St. Wannabe seeking occasion against Baptists.
But this is my life, praise The Lord.

Praise God for the miracles and the compliment!:thumbs:

 

[plain_n_simple]

The Shepard that walks in the power does not send his sheep to strangers for care.
The hireling does not have love for the sheep, so he sends them to strangers for care.
The pastor that walks in the power has to have faith to use the gifts.
The hireling needs no faith to send a church member to a stranger to do the good work.

 

[DHK]

The Shepard that walks in the power does not send his sheep to strangers for care.

Do you go to doctors? Do you take any kind of medication? Even an aspirin or Tylenol? anything at all?
Do you lay hands on your car, truck, etc., when it gets "sick"?
Did you know that Paul traveled with a Physician. His name was Luke.
--One of the earliest letters to be written was the first epistle to the Corinthians (ca. 55 A.D.). As time passed the gifts of the Spirit passed into oblivion. They were no longer needed. As the Book of Acts goes on chronologically, the gifts of the Spirit are used less and less.

The hireling does not have love for the sheep, so he sends them to strangers for care.

And what strangers do you see for your physical ailments? My answer is the same as above?

The pastor that walks in the power has to have faith to use the gifts.

Then the faith is blind. The Bible teaches there are no spiritual gifts for today, not the sign gifts anyway. If you put faith in something that does not exist it is blind and foolishness.

The hireling needs no faith to send a church member to a stranger to do the good work.

That is like taking a placebo. It is like sugar but it does no real good. It describes the entire Charismatic movement.