• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

John 14:2 and Italicized Additions in KJV

DrJamesAch

New Member
Indeed, the gloss "otherwise" and also "if not" are two of the renderings in the standard BDAG lexicon (A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT and other EARLY CHRISTIAN LITERATURE) under the word ει.

Interestingly enough, if you look just 9 verses below in John 14:11, one sees the same ει δε μη translated as "or else" in the KJV, as also in Rev 2:5, 16. In Mark 2:21, 22 the KJV renders ει δε μη as "else" both times.

In 2 Cor 11:16 the KJV renders the ει δε μη γε as "if otherwise." Also in Matt 6:1, the same expression is rendered "otherwise," while in Matt 9:17 it is "else."

One interesting thing is that the KJV renders ει δε μη γε as "if otherwise" in Luke 5:36, but the exact same expression as "else" in the very next verse.

Surely DrJamesAch will concede that the rendering of the expression is entirely up to the translational preference of the translators, as the expression has various legitimate renderings in English.

I have no problem with saying that the translators had such liberty. It is when critics claim those liberties are MISTAKES and ERRORS when THEY prefer a different rendering

But in this particular passage (John 14:2), the KJV was I believe preferentially correct, and even most of the other popular corrupt translations follow the KJV on this verse.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have no problem with saying that the translators had such liberty. It is when critics claim those liberties are MISTAKES and ERRORS when THEY prefer a different rendering

But in this particular passage (John 14:2), the KJV was I believe preferentially correct, and even most of the other popular corrupt translations follow the KJV on this verse.

what do you mean by 'corrupt" translations?
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
even most of the other popular corrupt translations follow the KJV on this verse.

The KJV's lead?

2 In my Father’s house are many dwelling places: if it were not so, I would have told you: I go to prepare a place for you. [Geneva Bible]

In my fathers house, are many dwellyng places: If it were not so, I woulde haue tolde you. I go to prepare a place for you. [Bishop's Bible]
 

DrJamesAch

New Member
The KJV's lead?

2 In my Father’s house are many dwelling places: if it were not so, I would have told you: I go to prepare a place for you. [Geneva Bible]

In my fathers house, are many dwellyng places: If it were not so, I woulde haue tolde you. I go to prepare a place for you. [Bishop's Bible]

Since the argument was limited to comparing the KJV to the other translations, yes, the KJVs lead. We've all agreed that these renderings were in older mss that predate the KJV, Geneva and the Bishops Bible, but for sake of the argument, since it is the KJV that is being compared to the other possible renderings, then I argued that they followed the KJV.
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

The article you linked to was full of false,stupid stuff. For once the NIV and ESV were both seen by the author as equally evil. They(the ESV and NIV) supposedly hold to the same false doctrine as per the unknown writer. But doctrinally the ESV and NIV both hold to the very same doctrines as the KJV. It was a big waste of my time to wade through all the manure you spread around.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The article you linked to was full of false stupid stuff.

Indeed. From the article:

Salvation is found only in Christ (2 Tim 2:10). God teaches that one gets into Christ at the point of water baptism (SEE Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3-4; 1 Pet. 3:21).
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The article you linked to was full of false,stupid stuff. For once the NIV and ESV were both seen by the author as equally evil. They(the ESV and NIV) supposedly hold to the same false doctrine as per the unknown writer. But doctrinally the ESV and NIV both hold to the very same doctrines as the KJV. It was a big waste of my time to wade through all the manure you spread around.

THAT source should be the one to have you accuse of slander and lying about your NIV!
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
THAT source should be the one to have you accuse of slander and lying about your NIV!

Well,you still stand guilty of continual lying and slander against the translators of the NIV.

That said,the unknown auther of that crass piece of junk lied not only about the NIV but the ESV as well.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well,you still stand guilty of continual lying and slander against the translators of the NIV.

That said,the unknown auther of that crass piece of junk lied not only about the NIV but the ESV as well.

looks like the 'DR" is on a roll!
 
Top