John 20:23...Can Christians Forgive Sin???

[JonC]

Ephesians 2:10. It is a work, but solely after being saved. Since in Christ forgiveness is completely do to grace, then the requirement to forgive in order to be forgiven can only be under the Law. Therefore as I argued it is Law.

I disagree. Works are things that we do. After we are saved the good that we do is not our works but Christ in us.

To complicate things.....men are not forgiven because they forgive other people (under the Law). There is no provision for forgiveness under the Law.

Christ did not come preaching the Law but proclaiming that God's kingdom has come. If we do not forgive others we will not be forgiven. This does not mean that in order to be forgiven under the Law we must forgive other people.

 

[37818]

There is no provision for forgiveness under the Law.

Leviticus 4:20-21, ". . . the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. And he shall carry forth the bullock without the camp, and burn him as he burned the first bullock: it is a sin offering for the congregation. . . ." Etc.

 

[AVL1984]

Ephesians 2:10. It is a work, but solely after being saved. Since in Christ forgiveness is completely do to grace, then the requirement to forgive in order to be forgiven can only be under the Law. Therefore as I argued it is Law.

I disagree...the law because of Christs death is now of none effect.

 

[AVL1984]

Leviticus 4:20-21, ". . . the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. And he shall carry forth the bullock without the camp, and burn him as he burned the first bullock: it is a sin offering for the congregation. . . ." Etc.

We are not under the law, but under the blood of Jesus Christ and his accomplished work.

 

[37818]

I disagree...the law because of Christs death is now of none effect.

Well, not completely until the Judgment, Hebrews 9:27, Revelation 20:14.

 

[Marooncat79]

Ephesians 4:32 as towards others

 

[AVL1984]

Ephesians 4:32 as towards others

Still only addressing one part of the equation. What about the retention of the sin???

 

[Zenas]

John 20:23 isn't the only place you will find this doctrine. After Jesus had healed the paralytic in Matthew 9 by telling him his sins are forgiven, there was discussion of the power to heal vs. the power to forgive sins. Then the apostle writes, "Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men." To be sure, it was Jesus who forgave the man's sins but it was written by one of the apostles who would be present in the upper room after he had received the gift to absolution. Therefore, he used the plural "men" rather than the singular "a man."

 

[AVL1984]

John 20:23 isn't the only place you will find this doctrine. After Jesus had healed the paralytic in Matthew 9 by telling him his sins are forgiven, there was discussion of the power to heal vs. the power to forgive sins. Then the apostle writes, "Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men." To be sure, it was Jesus who forgave the man's sins but it was written by one of the apostles who would be present in the upper room after he had received the gift to absolution. Therefore, he used the plural "men" rather than the singular "a man."

Still, we're trying to address whether this ended with the apostles...or did it extend past them. The RCC uses this basis as their priests' right to forgive sins. Also, how would it affect theirs or our ability to retain or remit sin?

 

[DaveXR650]

I do know that some of the Reformed Baptist elder run churches have the idea that they actually hold the "Keys" to the salvation of the members. Just get on the 9 Marks site and search. They can declare and sometimes do, that someone is in a state of unforgiven sin and is now outside the church and should be treated as an unbeliever. And they have determined that the sins in question are unforgiven. The issue of us forgiving other believers or our neighbors as mentioned in the Lord's prayer is a different issue. We don't forgive in the same judicial way that God does. But God forgives us a lot and constantly and therefore in the Lord's prayer we are warned to have an attitude of being ready and willing to forgive our peers. This is not a condition where a person could come to God and say "Look how I forgive so and so, therefore I have fulfilled that condition and you will forgive me". Rather it just means that it is impossible for someone like any of us, after understanding how much God not only forgives sins we confess, but overlooks many sins we aren't even aware of. For such a one to have a critical and unforgiving attitude towards those who are our equals shows that we have no part in God's forgiveness. I get this from reading Thomas Watson and Wilhelmus Brakel in their explanation of the Lord's prayer if you want to reference. They are Puritan or Puritan era and I don't know what contemporary, relevant theologians are saying.

 

[Zenas]

Still, we're trying to address whether this ended with the apostles...or did it extend past them. The RCC uses this basis as their priests' right to forgive sins. Also, how would it affect theirs or our ability to retain or remit sin?

It extended past the apostles. Otherwise James wouldn't have included forgiveness of sins in his directive for anointing the sick. ". . and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven." John 5:15.

 

[Ronnie Vaughan]

All churches that believe in apostolic succession believe this and have private confession. In Fact Lutherans and some Presbyterians believe in confession and forgiveness as well. They say a prayer of corporate confession in their liturgy, and then the pastor declares them forgiven on the basis of their confession and the promise of Christ. They say it is simply the declaration of the gospel that the church has been giving the task of proclaiming, pointing to the passages that have been pointed to already. I know confessional Lutherans believe any Christian can do the same; not sure about the Presbyterians.