John 3:16 Examined

[Rye]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Most Christians today, because of their western way of thinking, read John 3:16 through a lens. Most understand this passage in such a way that implies that God loves the world so much that every individual person is invited to believe in Christ and have everlasting life. But is that really what the text is saying?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son

In what way does God love the world? In such a way that He gave His only begotten Son. What is the purpose of giving His Son? So that God can demonstrate His love to everyone in the world, to the elect and non-elect alike. The purpose of demonstrating His love, though some may or may not receive mercy, is for His eternal glory. It can't be proven from the text that He loves the world in such a way that He is extends some kind of invitation to all of mankind in hopes that as many people as possible will freely accept the invitation. This is made clear from other passages in John that God does not love every individual person in the world equally.

John 17:9 - I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Whosoever believeth in Him but have everlasting life

This does not imply an invitation to every individual person, but rather is a description of what a person is doing which is believing in Him. The result of this act of belief is everlasting life. It would be like saying, "whosoever is 7 feet tall will play on the basketball team". Not everyone is 7 feet tall, therefore not everyone will play on the basketball team. Likewise, not everyone believes, therefore not everyone will have everlasting life.

In conclusion, we need to understand that John chapter 3 is not addressing the issue of who has the ability to believe in the first place. Fortunately, John chapter 6 does address that particular subject.

John 6:66 - And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Proper exegesis is how theologians have been able to avoid inserting a presupposition or a tradition into scripture. We must allow the text to speak for itself in the right context.

 

[shodan]

Yes! Today, most have NO grasp of the grammar here.

This is the best translation that I have seen: "NLT: “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.”

With Easter coming. Let's help others get the focus right.

The Easter Message and John 3:16

[Photo taken in Verona, Italy] John 3:16…Keeping the Easter Message “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal lif…

textsincontext.wordpress.com

 

[kyredneck]

John 3:16 Examined​

It's a statement of fact, NOT an invitation.

 

[Silverhair]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Most Christians today, because of their western way of thinking, read John 3:16 through a lens. Most understand this passage in such a way that implies that God loves the world so much that every individual person is invited to believe in Christ and have everlasting life. But is that really what the text is saying?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son

In what way does God love the world? In such a way that He gave His only begotten Son. What is the purpose of giving His Son? So that God can demonstrate His love to everyone in the world, to the elect and non-elect alike. The purpose of demonstrating His love, though some may or may not receive mercy, is for His eternal glory. It can't be proven from the text that He loves the world in such a way that He is extends some kind of invitation to all of mankind in hopes that as many people as possible will freely accept the invitation. This is made clear from other passages in John that God does not love every individual person in the world equally.

John 17:9 - I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Whosoever believeth in Him but have everlasting life

This does not imply an invitation to every individual person, but rather is a description of what a person is doing which is believing in Him. The result of this act of belief is everlasting life. It would be like saying, "whosoever is 7 feet tall will play on the basketball team". Not everyone is 7 feet tall, therefore not everyone will play on the basketball team. Likewise, not everyone believes, therefore not everyone will have everlasting life.

In conclusion, we need to understand that John chapter 3 is not addressing the issue of who has the ability to believe in the first place. Fortunately, John chapter 6 does address that particular subject.

John 6:66 - And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Proper exegesis is how theologians have been able to avoid inserting a presupposition or a tradition into scripture. We must allow the text to speak for itself in the right context.

Rye when will you learn that the bible is not a book of one liners. It seems that those of the calvinist persuasion can only deal with one verse at a time.

When you learn to look at context you will overcome many of the issues that calvinism causes.

Joh 3:14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So you see God loves the whole world and has provided the means for the whole would to be saved. The condition of that salvation is also told to us, we must believe in Him.

So contrary to what KY said in post #3 it is both a statement and an invitation when you take the time to actually read the verse in context.

You quote John 17:9 but if you had continued reading you would have seen
John 17:20 I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word,

Your right vs 9 does not but if you had continued to read a bit further to John 17:20 you would have seen this "I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word,"

And who are we to preach the gospel message to
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.

So now you see that the invitation is for all mankind no restriction of age, colour, gender or nationality. Now we know that not all will come to trust in Christ but those that do will be saved.

Rye again a bit of context would clear up your confusion.
Joh 6:64 But among you there are some who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who were the ones that did not believe, and who was the one that would betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted by the Father."
Joh 6:66 Because of this many of his disciples turned back and no longer went about with him.

Only those that have believed in Christ will be granted by the Father to do so.

John 6:65 tells us that not all will be allowed/permitted to come to God. John 6:64 tells why. They did not believe but the question is what did they not believe? We need to look back to John 6:53-63 for the answer.

 

[Rye]

It seems that those of the calvinist persuasion can only deal with one verse at a time.

Yes, Calvinists are known for examining the wording of each verse carefully, in order and in context. Why is that a bad thing?

When you learn to look at context you will overcome many of the issues that calvinism causes.

Per the verses you cited, the conclusion I came to is that it is a fact that everyone who believes will have everlasting life. It is also a fact that everyone who does not believe is already condemned. If there’s something more to be communicated to us, I’m not seeing it.

So contrary to what KY said in post #3 it is both a statement and an invitation when you take the time to actually read the verse in context.

What is the context that leads you to believe that this is an open invitation? Are you sure that you’re not reading through a presuppositional filter?

You quote John 17:9 but if you had continued reading you would have seen
John 17:20 I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word,

Correct, He prays for the believers at that time and the believers who will come to believe in Him in the future. Again, there’s nothing about an invitation implied here. Christ knows who His sheep are.

Your right vs 9 does not but if you had continued to read a bit further to John 17:20 you would have seen this "I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word,"

And who are we to preach the gospel message to
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.

We are commanded to preach the Gospel to everyone, that is true. The Gospel message is the mechanism used to enlighten the elect, even though we don’t know who the elect are. The implication that every individual person has the free choice to respond positively to the Gospel message and change the outcome of their destiny is nowhere to be found.

Only those that have believed in Christ will be granted by the Father to do so.

Only those that have been granted by the Father to believe in Christ will do so. That is the correct order of the verse in question.

They did not believe but the question is what did they not believe?

It should be clear by the time we reach verse 65 that they don’t believe because they haven’t been granted the ability to do so by the Father.

 

[DaveXR650]

I've never really understood why some people feel they need to mess with John 3:16. The plainest and most obvious meaning seems to be sufficient.

 

[Rye]

I've never really understood why some people feel they need to mess with John 3:16. The plainest and most obvious meaning seems to be sufficient.

Whosoever is 7 feet tall will play on the basketball team.

Is the plain and obvious meaning of this statement an invitation for everyone to play on the basketball team?

No, because not everyone is 7 feet tall, right?

It’s a description of what a person is.

Likewise, a believer is a description of what a person is.

 

[Van]

John 3:16 Interpretive Translation

God showed His love for fallen Humanity in this way,

He gave His uniquely divine Son, God incarnate, so that

Everyone believing into Him, due to their faith being credited by God,

will not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[DaveXR650]

Whosoever is 7 feet tall will play on the basketball team.

Is the plain and obvious meaning of this statement an invitation for everyone to play on the basketball team?

No, because not everyone is 7 feet tall, right?

It’s a description of what a person is.

Likewise, a believer is a description of what a person is.

That doesn't work because belief or faith is by it's own definition a receiving of something and an acknowledgment that you are coming and bringing no merit or qualification of your own. If I'm not mistaken, somebody could look it up, even Calvin said the world just meant the whole world in general. I don't have access to his verse by verse commentary anymore.

 

[Rye]

…belief or faith is by it's own definition a receiving of something and an acknowledgment that you are coming and bringing no merit or qualification of your own.

That is true, but as stated in the OP, the issue of who is able to have faith is not discussed in John chapter 3. All we get are factual statements. The result of this will be this.

The first place I go to is John 6 to find those answers.

 

[kyredneck]

the issue of who is able to have faith is not discussed in John chapter 3

???

3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit. Jn 3 YLT

Synonymous with:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jn 20

 

[JonC]

Whosoever is 7 feet tall will play on the basketball team.

Is the plain and obvious meaning of this statement an invitation for everyone to play on the basketball team?

No, because not everyone is 7 feet tall, right?

It’s a description of what a person is.

Likewise, a believer is a description of what a person is.

The issue of invitation (of a select group or everybody) is absent John 3:16. The subject is how God loved the World.

I have seen abuses on both sides (Calvinists denying God's love for the World and non-Calvinists adding to "whosoever").

 

[Rye]

???

3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit. Jn 3 YLT

Synonymous with:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jn 20

Yes, those verses are consistent with monergism. However, I like to go directly to John 6 to see Jesus clearly explain the reason as to why one person believes and another doesn’t

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, those verses are consistent with monergism. However, I like to go directly to John 6 to see Jesus clearly explain the reason as to why one person believes and another doesn’t

Everyone that believes is ALREADY a child of God, i.e., born from above:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

Everyone that believes has eternal life ALREADY:

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 Jn 5

36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him. Jn 3

21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3

24 .....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...Jn 5

47 .... He that believeth hath eternal life. Jn 6

 

[Rye]

The subject is how God loved the World.

The giving of His Son is how God demonstrates His love to the world. It doesn’t necessarily follow that He gives every person in the world an equal opportunity to come to the Son.

A person might demonstrate their love for the world by giving to charity, however that donation is not for the every person in the world to take advantage of. It is limited and for a specific purpose.

 

[DaveXR650]

That is true, but as stated in the OP, the issue of who is able to have faith is not discussed in John chapter 3. All we get are factual statements. The result of this will be this.

The first place I go to is John 6 to find those answers.

All that the Father gives to me will come to me. He that cometh unto me I will no wise cast out. Both things are going on. You should never handle John 3:16 in a way that even hints to someone that they cannot freely look to Christ and believe; that they may not be included in the "world" that God loved. I don't think you need to give that up to be a good Calvinist.

 

[Rye]

All that the Father gives to me will come to me. He that cometh unto me I will no wise cast out. Both things are going on.

The Father gives to the Son, the result of that giving is that they will come to the Son and be raised up on the last day. It is a definite thing that will happen.

You should never handle John 3:16 in a way that even hints to someone that they cannot freely look to Christ and believe; that they may not be included in the "world" that God loved. I don't think you need to give that up to be a good Calvinist.

Absolutely not. I can read John 3:16 to a lost sinner and I don’t have to add anything else to the verse. All I can do is tell someone how to be saved. It’s not up to me to determine how God works in their heart.

 

[Scarlett O.]

This thread is closed at the request of the OP. He has also requested his account be closed.

I won't give the details, but he says he needs to work on his marriage and his own self. Pray for him.

I am obliging his wishes.