John 3:16

Wes Outwest,

I don’t think that rc was giving us a compliment by saying our beliefs come from secular humanistic thinking.

I wonder if our brother, rc, knows that much of Augustine’s theology came out of the secular views of men like Plato and Aristotle who he studied at length. Rc is like ‘the pot calling the kettle black.’

Have you ever noticed how little of the love of God shines through to sinners and even toward His saints in the Augustinian/Calvinistic system of theology? It is because Augustine had his nose in the impersonal philosophies of the above named philosophers. You know, not the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but rather the force of god who was in some way the first cause of the world and universe. With this backdrop Augustine and later in Calvin’s writings we have God who could care less about the majority of sinners going to Hell, but they move forward the Gospel to at least save some. Nice of them don’t you think. This is about as cold and impersonal as the fallen angels can portray our Lord’s sacrificial death through human agents.

Jesus through His apostles magnify the fact that Jesus died for every lost soul. [John 3:16; Hebrews 2:9; I John 5:13; Revelation 3:20]

In Revelation 22:17 the Holy Spirit and the church welcomes all to receive free grace, but the sinner must take of the water of life freely.

Brother rc might not have studied Augustine’s background, so you might want to bring to him some new enlightenment, brother Wes.

And why did A.A. Hodge, D.D. never include the love of God as one of Christ’s attributes? Need I explain more thoroughly? Maybe because their alleged God who damns the majority at will, is light years away from our loving God, who died for all sinners. [I John 2:2]

I love to read their contorted interpretations of these above verses and many, many more of them. A kind of mental gymnastic . . .

 

Please Ray,

Tell me what views did Augustine use "From Plato and Aristotle"... Funny how you vaguely say that...what premises and syllogism's did he build upon that where founded upon Plato AND Aristotle" (which by the way were opposing philosophies mostly, if you REALLY know philosophy, Aristotle viewed things from particulers to find truth where Plato used universals... so I'm REALLY looking forward to Rays educated answer to where Augustine used BOTH)..And I also want an answer then to where Pelegius (heretic) received HIS philosophy and where did it come from... and why was he labeled a heretic and Augustine was the foundation of theology for thousands of years?

 

Numbers 21:6. "The Lord sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died."

21:7 So the people came to Moses...(and then they asked him to intercede for them, etc., etc.).

According to Numbers many died prior to the raising of the serpent. </font>[/QUOTE]He also refused to let the Israelites, into the promised land until all of that present generation died off, save for Joshua and Caleb!

 

rc,

Before we talk about Plato and Aristotle I am still waiting to hear your exegesis of the passages that I placed in my post.

Again, ‘Jesus through His apostles magnify the fact that Jesus died for every lost soul. [John 3:16; Hebrews 2:9; I John 5:13; Revelation 3:20]

In Revelation 22:17 the Holy Spirit and the church welcomes all to receive free grace, but the sinner must take of the water of life freely.

And why did A.A. Hodge, D.D. never include the love of God as one of Christ’s attributes? Need I explain more thoroughly? Maybe because their alleged God who damns the majority at will, is light years away from our loving God, who died for all sinners. [I John 2:2] The text, “Outlines of Theology.”

Don’t divert attention away from my statements as to God’s concern for all without qualification, by asking about the two named philosophers above, who you claim are not a factor in your purest of all theological expressions of truth.

We are not Pelagian because he brought error also into the theological spectrum and he was condemned at the Council of Carthage in A.D. 418. As you know Pelagius did not believe that the nature of sin, the Adamic nature, Original Sin was imputed to the human race. We believe as you that by the offense of Adam in the Fall, judgment has come on every person born unto ‘condemnation.’ [Romans 5:18a & I John 1:8a]

I would and I think others also might like to hear your exegesis of the above Scriptures. Being lengthy is not important; we would merely like to see your take on these words from God.

 

No problem... This will take some time... so please sit tight ... I won't be replying for a while...

I will answer, BUT THEN I want you to back up your statements of how Augustine used Plato and Aristotle. Also I will ask you what beliefs "Where spawned" from Pelagius' heretical views? Why did he believe them...OR what views did he have that backed him into a corner to HAVE TO believe those views? ... By the way those EXACT views are the one held by FINNEY.

Ray... you are now starting to ask THE VERY SAME questions I asked when I believed the same way you and I luv light do... Please don't take that the wrong way, I do not mean that condescendingly at all...

 

Don't Be deceived Ray!

 

On the contrary...

His father wrote on it, Ray, in Chapter V of his Systematic Theology, among other places. A.A. Hodge includes God's love among His attributes in "God - His Nature and Relation to the Universe." He also wrote about it in "God's Covenants with Man-The Church." He mentions the love of God in "Assurance and Humility." Here is a quote from "Justification-Part III" by A.A. Hodge:

That paragraph is then followed by 7 paragraphs, 4 of which deal with the love of God specifically, the other three of which connect it to justification by faith.

In short, A.A. Hodge wrote about God's love all the time and extensively. He was simply a very clinical writer. Most theologians of his day discuss the love of God under the heading Theology Proper or in soteriology NOT Christology, because Christ is God, so they include discussions of Christ's attributes, outside of the hypostatic union in those sections, particularly Theology Proper, because the attributes are intrinsic to all the Persons of the Godhead.

 

What's wrong Wes... afraid Ray might be "THINKING" unbiasly?

 

No He has been thinking unbiasedly all along! It is deception itself that I caution him about!

 

Wes, Outwest,

What deception is in the air on this Christmas evening?

You said,

 

</font>[/QUOTE]The deception put forth by the other poster a couple days before Christmas.