John 6:44

[Winman]

I didn't just one day wake up and decide to be a Calvinist, and then find scriptures to support it. And I'm trying not to read into these passages something it doesn't say.

So, let's look again at what John 6:44 and 6:65 say:

You and I agree. All who come were drawn. And all who come were given that ability by the Father.

Agreed.

I'm assuming that your position is that all are drawn and all are given the ability to come by the Father. And I hold that they are not.

Yes, it is my position that all are drawn, because that is exactly what scripture says.

Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

So, you, of necessity, will conclude that the reason some don't come is that they aren't willing.

I agree that they don't come because they aren't willing.

OK.

Seems clear to me. Those who come are drawn. Those who don't come aren't drawn.

Only if you completely ignore Jesus's own words in John 12:32.

Those who come were given the ability by the Father. Those who don't come, weren't.

No, they have the ability, they just do not use it. Just as three men were given talents (money), two used their money and earned more, one hid his money and did not use it.

I, of necessity, conclude that they weren't willing because they were not drawn or given the ability.

Your only necessity is to make scripture fit your doctrine. If you did not believe in Calvinism, you would not have the least difficulty in believeing all are drawn as John 12:32 says.

Since we start with different premises, we come out with different conclusions. Each is driven by how we exegete the scriptures. Neither of us tries to make scriptures fit our views.

I would disagree, I believe you are trying to make scripture fit Calvinism, but it does not.

I have another passage for us to tackle in a later post. It's also in John.

I'll be waiting.

 

[DaChaser1]

I have a clarifying question before I answer: Would you consider someone being confronted by the powerful Holy Spirit wrought Gospel, carried by a Holy Spirit indwelled ambassador of God who is making an appeal as if from God to 'be reconciled to Him,' as being 'on his own?'

have to add to that the Holy spirit also would be enabling by His own act one to have state able to hear and respond by faith!

 

[Forest]

Agreed.


Yes, it is my position that all are drawn, because that is exactly what scripture says.

Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.


OK.


Only if you completely ignore Jesus's own words in John 12:32.



No, they have the ability, they just do not use it. Just as three men were given talents (money), two used their money and earned more, one hid his money and did not use it.


Your only necessity is to make scripture fit your doctrine. If you did not believe in Calvinism, you would not have the least difficulty in believeing all are drawn as John 12:32 says.


I would disagree, I believe you are trying to make scripture fit Calvinism, but it does not.

I'll be waiting.

If you would make all scripture harmonise, then you would have to consider John 3:14-15 in reference to John 12:32. The "all men" in John 12:32 is pertaining to all that believe, and not all mankind.