John 6:65

[Van]

The text, and the context, does not make your argument. I see you snipped out the Bible. You have to snip out the Bible if you are going to hold your view.
Stop snipping out the rest of John 6.

Once again, this poster addresses me and not the topic.

1) The idea based on the context of John 6:65 is a person cannot come to faith in Christ, unless God allows him or her to believe. Thus if God has chosen to harden a person's heart, as depicted in Romans 11, then that person cannot come to Jesus.

Some of Christ's followers actually did not believe Christ was the Messiah, and Jesus knew who did not believe, whether able to or not, and who would betray Him and was not able to believe because He had been hardened to be the "betrayer."

Thus no one can come to faith in Christ unless:

(a) they have not hardened their hearts like soil #1 in Matthew 13, and

(b) they have not been hardened by God for His purpose as in Romans 11, and

(c) God has revealed the Gospel through His witnesses and hey were receptive and open to good news of the gospel. Recall that some receive the gospel with joy, but no deep commitment, and others also receive the gospel but do not make Christ the overriding priority of their lives. Thus no one can come to Christ unless it has been granted or allowed by our sovereign God.

2) So anyone not blocked from believing can believe in Christ.

3) No one said or suggested anyone needs "advanced faithfulness" to trust in Christ. However, if a person's faith is not deeply rooted, i.e. not superficial, or the person's faith does not make Christ their overriding priority, it is unlikely God will credit their "faith" as righteousness.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now the ones to whom the Father gives to come to the Son as Per Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Are the ones that it said to be the ones the Father giveth the Son in Jn 6:37

37, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." You see, every one of those given to the Son by the Father SHALL come to him.

And the promise is they shall come to Him and they will never be cast out, or lose their Salvation. We have here Election, Irresistible Grace and perseverance or preservation/eternal security.

 

[Brightfame52]

1) Is being attracted to Christ because of Christ's lovingkindness as demonstrated by undergoing crucifixion the same as God transferring someone spiritually into Christ's spiritual body? No, of course not! Calvinism conflates Christ becoming the means of salvation by dying on the cross, with Christ salvation of individuals transferred into Him.

2) Psalms 110:3 is an obscure and ambiguous verse. One way to at least find how some understand the verse is to look at the more dynamic rather than formal translations. Here is the NLT of Psalms 110:3:

NLT
When you go to war, your people will serve you willingly. You are arrayed in holy garments, and your strength will be renewed each day like the morning dew.​

Nothing in the verse say the volunteers were compelled to volunteer

3) Ezkiel 36:26-27 does not say or suggest people are drawn by giving them a new heart. People are given (transferred into Christ) where they are born anew as new creations with a new heart.

4) Therefore none of the claimed verses support the fiction that people are dragged into faith by Irresistible Grace.

So I give you scripture to prove my points and you reject them, deny them.

 

[Van]

LOL, I see this discussion of John 6:65 is no longer consigned to oblivion God works in mysterious ways. Now this thread is found on our Home page as a Featured Thread.

 

[Van]

Now the ones to whom the Father gives to come to the Son as Per Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Are the ones that it said to be the ones the Father giveth the Son in Jn 6:37

37, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." You see, every one of those given to the Son by the Father SHALL come to him.

And the promise is they shall come to Him and they will never be cast out, or lose their Salvation. We have here Election, Irresistible Grace and perseverance or preservation/eternal security.

So I give you scripture to prove my points and you reject them, deny them.

1) I do not deny or reject any scripture, but I do interpret them contextually and my understanding differs from yours.

2) What was given in John 6:65 was to be allowed to either accept or reject the gospel. Anyone not blocked from believing can believe. That is why God spoke in parables (Matthew 13) so those who could choose to believe were blocked by the need for further explanation because the timing was not right.

3) What was given in John 6:37 was the individuals human spirit, meaning their spirit was transferred out of the realm of darkness into Christ's spiritual body. Obviously a very different action, one to allow something that might occur, and one to transfer someone into Christ. To allow human action is very different from God unilaterally causing an action.

4) The claim these verses present Irresistible Grace, i.e. the gift of faith, is without merit.

 

[AustinC]

Once again, this poster addresses me and not the topic.

1) The idea based on the context of John 6:65 is a person cannot come to faith in Christ, unless God allows him or her to believe. Thus if God has chosen to harden a person's heart, as depicted in Romans 11, then that person cannot come to Jesus.

Some of Christ's followers actually did not believe Christ was the Messiah, and Jesus knew who did not believe, whether able to or not, and who would betray Him and was not able to believe because He had been hardened to be the "betrayer."

Thus no one can come to faith in Christ unless:

(a) they have not hardened their hearts like soil #1 in Matthew 13, and

(b) they have not been hardened by God for His purpose as in Romans 11, and

(c) God has revealed the Gospel through His witnesses and hey were receptive and open to good news of the gospel. Recall that some receive the gospel with joy, but no deep commitment, and others also receive the gospel but do not make Christ the overriding priority of their lives. Thus no one can come to Christ unless it has been granted or allowed by our sovereign God.

2) So anyone not blocked from believing can believe in Christ.

3) No one said or suggested anyone needs "advanced faithfulness" to trust in Christ. However, if a person's faith is not deeply rooted, i.e. not superficial, or the person's faith does not make Christ their overriding priority, it is unlikely God will credit their "faith" as righteousness.

This is not what Jesus says in John 6. No matter how much you regurgitate your assertion, you will not be expressing what Jesus says in John 6.
Since you refuse to receive what Jesus tells you, you are by that virtue, teaching something God does not teach. Multiple people have shown you this and yet you present an incorrect teaching, over and over again. If the admins at the BB cared about theological truth, you would not be presenting your doctrines anymore. But, here we are, for a multitude of times, speaking about an issue that everyone here recognizes that you have lost the argument.
Can you please give it a rest, or will you keep repeating a dead argument?

 

[Scarlett O.]

If the admins at the BB cared about theological truth.........

Untruthful slap in the face.

Thread closed.