John MacArthur - Jesus Did Not Have to Shed His Blood to Save Us!

[SavedByGrace]

This is a blatant HERESY, and is AGAINST what the Bible VERY CLEARLY Teaches!

"How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God" - Hebrews 9:14

"Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins" - Hebrews 9:22

"In him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace" - Ephesians 1:7

"But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ" - Ephesians 2:13

"And through Him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross" - Colossians 1:20

"And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood" - Revelation 1:5

There can be NO DOUBT, that the ACTUAL Blood that Jesus Christ Shed on the Cross, ALONE cleanses us from our sins!

There is NO justification from the Bible with what MacArthur, argues, that it is only the Death of Jesus Christ that saves sinners!

He is ADDING to what the Bible Teaches! and is FALSE!

 

[Deacon]

I only watched half of the video. ... I'm no fan of MacArthur...

...but gosh, I agree with him.
​

The "blood" is a figure of speech, a simile, for the death of Christ.
It is said that Jesus was a carpenter, sins would not magically disappear if he smashed his thumb with a hammer and bled.

Furthermore, (and I'm stepping out on a limb here) Christ did not HAVE TO DIE, for our sins to be forgiven

God could have simply declared our sins forgiven - so easy!

>>>>> But in order for God to be true to his character, to remain just and righteous, Jesus had to die the death that he did.<<<<<

Rob

 

[SavedByGrace]

I only watched half of the video. ... I'm no fan of MacArthur...

...but gosh, I agree with him.
​

The "blood" is a figure of speech, a simile, for the death of Christ.
It is said that Jesus was a carpenter, sins would not magically disappear if he smashed his thumb with a hammer and bled.

Furthermore, (and I'm stepping out on a limb here) Christ did not HAVE TO DIE, for our sins to be forgiven

God could have simply declared our sins forgiven - so easy!

>>>>> But in order for God to be true to his character, to remain just and righteous, Jesus had to die the death that he did.<<<<<

Rob

what does the Bible say?

We should not add or take away from what the Bible says!

Why would you want to speculate on whether Jesus "did not have to die"? this is useless reasoning for any Christian. The FACT is that The Trinity decided that Jesus Christ is the Person Who would shed His blood for the human race, and those who accepted His Ultimate Sacrifice on the Cross for themselves, and repented and believed, will indeed be saved.

JM is arguing to the wind. IF, as he says, that the Blood of Jesus does not actually save, then WHY did Jesus have to Die such a violent Death? He could have been killed in many other ways, where He died, but no blood was shed.

The Old Testament Sacrificial System, which is a foretype of the Death of Jesus Christ, is very clear, that the shedding of blood is a requirement by Almighty God, to Atone for our sins. Any other teaching is against what the Bible actually Teaches, as is what JM says!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Lev_17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

1Co_10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Rev_7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[tyndale1946]

Lev_17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

1Co_10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Rev_7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This is a blatant HERESY, and is AGAINST what the Bible VERY CLEARLY Teaches!

"How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God" - Hebrews 9:14

"Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins" - Hebrews 9:22

"In him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace" - Ephesians 1:7

"But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ" - Ephesians 2:13

"And through Him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross" - Colossians 1:20

"And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood" - Revelation 1:5

There can be NO DOUBT, that the ACTUAL Blood that Jesus Christ Shed on the Cross, ALONE cleanses us from our sins!

There is NO justification from the Bible with what MacArthur, argues, that it is only the Death of Jesus Christ that saves sinners!

He is ADDING to what the Bible Teaches! and is FALSE!

Another stupid preacher making another stupid comment... Why should I watch some idiot, show his ignorance?... I'll pass!... Brother Glen

 

[Silverhair]

MacArthur is right in that the death of Christ was the propitiation for our sins but he is wrong when he says we are saved by His death. We are saved by the risen Christ. We trust in the risen Christ or our faith is worthless. 1Co 15:17 " and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." The death of Christ made salvation possible for all but it is through faith in the risen Christ that one is saved.

 

[SavedByGrace]

MacArthur is right in that the death of Christ was the propitiation for our sins but he is wrong when he says we are saved by His death. We are saved by the risen Christ. We trust in the risen Christ or our faith is worthless. 1Co 15:17 " and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." The death of Christ made salvation possible for all but it is through faith in the risen Christ that one is saved.

have you read Hebrews 9:22?

 

[SavedByGrace]

"people must understand that it is not the bleeding of Jesus, it is not the blood of Jesus", this is what JM says if you went to about 35 seconds onwards.

This is UTTER NONSENSE! This Bible verses that I have quoted, and others, are very clear that the BLOOD shed on the Cross, cleanses our sins. This part of the Death of Jesus Christ, the actual "cleansing" of sins, required the shedding of Jesus' Blood!

JM is trying to get clever with his really stupid comments!

 

[Darrell C]

have you read Hebrews 9:22?

When we partake of Communion we partake of the blood and body jointly. The twain signify the death of Christ. MacArthur has made it clear over the years that he takes the view that "the blood" is euphemistic for death, just as "sleeping" is. When someone dies, we say one has "passed away." I disagree with a few things MacArthur teaches, such as his belief that men went to Heaven and were born again prior to the Cross, but the fact remains he is a great teacher. You aren't going to find a single teacher outside of a cult that you won't be in disagreement with about something, and if you do, you might want to consider if you agree because you are simply taking their word for it.

Christ offered Himself up a sacrifice in our stead. When we look at the pattern of sacrifice in Scripture, it is noted that they all—died. If one is going to be dogmatic that "blood" means literal blood, one is forced (in order to be consistent) to also view "sleeping" as simply the taking of rest. We don't do that, though, because the Lord makes it clear that (when He is speaking of Lazarus) He is referring to death when He uses the term sleeping.

In order for salvation to be accomplished, there are a number of things that had to happen: The Son of God had to manifest in the flesh and veil His glory with a human body, He had to die, He had to be buried, He had to rise again, and He had to return to Heaven. Had He not returned to Heaven we would be as the Old Testament Saints: unregenerate and still awaiting Eternal Redemption. Fortunately for us, we await glorification only.

God bless.

 

[37818]

Wow.

Romans 3:25, . . . Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; . . .

Isaiah 53:12, . . . he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . .

Leviticus 17:11, . . . For the | soul | of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. . . .

 

[Van]

I only watched half of the video. ... I'm no fan of MacArthur...

...but gosh, I agree with him.
​

The "blood" is a figure of speech, a simile, for the death of Christ.
It is said that Jesus was a carpenter, sins would not magically disappear if he smashed his thumb with a hammer and bled.

Furthermore, (and I'm stepping out on a limb here) Christ did not HAVE TO DIE, for our sins to be forgiven

God could have simply declared our sins forgiven - so easy!

>>>>> But in order for God to be true to his character, to remain just and righteous, Jesus had to die the death that he did.<<<<<

Rob

Without the shedding of blood [a figure of speech for loss of physical life] there is no forgiveness of sin. Hebrews 9:22

Leviticus 17:14 teaches the life or soul of all flesh is its blood.

So the actual point of contention is whether God was required to cause the death of Jesus to allow Him to forgive sin and not violate his immutable characteristic of justness which requires that He keep His word. My answer is Yes, God had to sacrifice the life of Jesus in order to make sinners holy and blameless. That is why those in Abraham's bosom had to wait to be made perfect.

This begs the question of how did Jesus before His death forgive sin? My answer is Jesus recognized their faith as being acceptable to God, and thus because no plan of God can be thwarted, told the person that their faith had resulted in the forgiveness of their sin. If they had died before Christ's death, they too would have been taken to Abraham's bosom to await the shedding of the blood of the Lamb of God.

Yes I know its thin, but it is the best I can do.

 

[Van]

What if the individuals that Jesus said their sins were forgiven had lived until after Christ died? I think God then (or possibly at Pentecost) transferred all of them into Christ's spiritual body, where they underwent the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ and we born anew, having the righteousness of God and having been sealed with the Holy Spirit in Christ.

 

[37818]

What is not Agreed on by all interpreters is that Jesus finished receiving the wages.of sin prior to His physical death per John 19:28, . . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." And before His physical death declarated it so, per John 19:30, . . . It is finished. . . .

 

[Deacon]

"people must understand that it is not the bleeding of Jesus, it is not the blood of Jesus", ...
This is UTTER NONSENSE! This Bible verses that I have quoted, and others, are very clear that the BLOOD shed on the Cross, cleanses our sins. This part of the Death of Jesus Christ, the actual "cleansing" of sins, required the shedding of Jesus' Blood!

"This is a blatant HERESY, and is AGAINST what the Bible VERY CLEARLY Teaches!"
You are saying that Jesus Christ didn't have to die,
He only had to shed blood (bleed) on the cross to cleanse our sins.

(Just playing your game) lol

Rob

 

[SavedByGrace]

"This is a blatant HERESY, and is AGAINST what the Bible VERY CLEARLY Teaches!"
You are saying that Jesus Christ didn't have to die,
He only had to shed blood (bleed) on the cross.

(Just playing your game) lol

Rob

Sad that you think that this is a game

 

[Deacon]

Perhaps this will help you in properly understanding Scripture and reduce what you label as heresy.

Figure of speech: SYNECDOCHE

Synecdoche is a figure of speech in which, most often, a part of something is used to refer to its whole.

• Synecdoche is a device used in many idioms, colloquial expressions, and slang terms.
• One common form of synecdoche uses a body part (hand, heart, head, eyes, etc.) to stand in for an entire person.

In this case "blood" represents the suffering and death of Christ on the cross.

Rob

 

[SavedByGrace]

Perhaps this will help you in properly understanding Scripture and reduce what you label as heresy.

Figure of speech: SYNECDOCHE

Synecdoche is a figure of speech in which, most often, a part of something is used to refer to its whole.

• Synecdoche is a device used in many idioms, colloquial expressions, and slang terms.
• One common form of synecdoche uses a body part (hand, heart, head, eyes, etc.) to stand in for an entire person.

In this case "blood" represents the suffering and death of Christ on the cross.

Rob

Not so!

Jesus could have suffered without shedding any blood.

The Sacrifical system in the Bible requires that blood is actually shed for the Atonement of sins.

And because the life is in the blood, this is the only means our sins are cleansed

 

[JD731]

The blood of Jesus Christ is on the mercy seat in heaven. What part of Jesus Christ is not eternal? God has determined that he cannot see sin through the blood of Christ. Who would believe that the dust of the ground around the cross would pollute the blood of Christ or that the elements would break it down as it ran down that cross?

God gave us a visual in Exodus as he allowed us to see redemption by blood when it was applied to the door of the sinner and he said when he sees the blood he would pass over. The life of the flesh is in the blood but not a drop will flow through our glorified bodies but the life of God and of Christ will dwell in us and will be our life as well. This blood at the Passover was the blood of a substitute, a pure lamb without spot or blemish. The blood was not applied to the sinner but it was applied to the door. God cannot see sin through this pure blood. Jesus said he was the door.

We are told that Jesus became sin for us who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. It is my understanding that the sinner was not washed in his blood at the cross but sin itself was washed away by his blood. We are told he "put away" sin by the sacrifice of himself. He reconciled all sinners to himself by one sacrifice for us all at the same time with one sacrifice for ever. This is what atonement means. God is not dealing with us as sinners in this age. Why would he if the sin of the world has been taken away and God is looking at the world through the blood of Christ now and counting no one as sinners while they live? It is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgement Heb 9:27.

ACTS 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

God must have this blood in his possession if it is the purchase price of our salvation and it must be eternal and uncorrupted. This is just logical and reasonable to believe. It is the blood of God.

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is (present tense) the faithful witness (present tense) , and the first begotten of the dead (present tense), and the prince of the kings of the earth (present tense) . Unto him that loved us (past tense), and washed us from our sins in his own blood (past tense),

We must not marginalize the precious blood of our savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

(Just playing your game) lol

Sad that you think that this is a game

@Deacon, Many can 'dish it out' but can't take it in return.

Besides, I've never seen you acting hysterical on the BB like I have @SavedByGrace.

 

[Silverhair]

have you read Hebrews 9:22?

Have you read Lev 16?

The death of Christ was the propitiation, our trust in the risen Christ our salvation. Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith;..."