John MacArthur's eschatology book

[saturneptune]

Still waiting for that historical proof that jesus actually returned ad 70, and that there was a resurrection of all of the saints dead and living, and new heavens/eareth ushered in!

He stopped there on His way to South America as recorded in the Book of Mormon.

 

[Yeshua1]

(I found this intriguing article on the net. Any reactions?)

Pretrib Rapture Pride

by Bruce Rockwell

Pretrib rapture promoters like Thomas Ice give the impression they know more than the early Church Fathers, the Reformers, the greatest Greek New Testament scholars including those who produced the KJV Bible, the founders of their favorite Bible schools, and even their own mentors!
Ice's mentor, Dallas Sem. president John Walvoord, couldn't find anyone holding to pretrib before 1830 - and Walvoord called John Darby and his Brethren followers "the early pretribulationists" (RQ, pp. 160-62). Ice belittles Walvoord and claims that several pre-1830 persons, including "Pseudo-Ephraem" and a "Rev. Morgan Edwards," taught a pretrib rapture. Even though the first one viewed Antichrist's arrival as the only "imminent" event, Ice (and Grant Jeffrey) audaciously claim he expected an "imminent" pretrib rapture! And Ice (and John Bray) have covered up Edwards' historicism which made a pretrib rapture impossible! Google historian Dave MacPherson's "Deceiving and Being Deceived" for documentation on these and similar historical distortions.
The same pretrib defenders, when combing ancient books, deviously read "pretrib" into phrases like "before Armageddon," "before the final conflagration," and "escape all these things"!
BTW, the KJV translators' other writings found in London's famed British Library (where MacPherson has researched) haven't a hint of pretrib rapturism. Is it possible that Ice etc. have found pretrib "proof" in the KJV that its translators never found?
Pretrib merchandisers like Ice claim that nothing is better pretrib proof than Rev. 3:10. They also cover up "Famous Rapture Watchers" (on Google) which shows how the greatest Greek NT scholars of all time interpreted it.
Pretrib didn't flourish in America much before the 1909 Scofield Bible which has pretribby "explanatory notes" in its margins. Not seen in the margins was jailed forger Scofield's criminal record throughout his life that David Lutzweiler has documented in his recent book "The Praise of Folly" which is available online.
Biola University's doctrinal statement says Christ's return is "premillennial" and "before the Tribulation." Although universities stand for "academic freedom," Biola has added these narrow, restrictive phrases - non-essentials the founders purposely didn't include in their original doctrinal statement when Biola was just a small Bible institute! And other Christian schools have also belittled their founders.
Ice, BTW, has a "Ph.D" issued by a tiny Texas school that wasn't authorized to issue degrees! Ice now says that he's working on another "Ph.D" via the University of Wales in Britain. For light on the degrees of Ice's scholarliness, Google "Bogus degree scandal prompts calls to wind up University of Wales," "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," "be careful in polemics - Peripatetic Learning," and "Walvoord Melts Ice."
Other fascinating Google articles include "The Unoriginal John Darby," "X-raying Margaret," "Edward Irving in Unnerving," "Pretrib Rapture Politics," "Pretrib Rapture Secrets," "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Pretrib Hypocrisy," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," and "Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism" - most from the author of "The Rapture Plot," the most accurate documentation on pretrib rapture history.
Can anyone guess who the last proud pretrib rapture holdout will be?

could it be because it was "rediscovered" truth by the church. as the church went under pretierism/A Mil due mainly to the time Augustine make the Kingdom on earth as the catholic church, spiritualizing prophesy?

Also, there was "insight" granted by the Lord, as per prophet daniel, books of prophecy to be closed off until end of days, and isreal returning to land might be the key to having those truths'rediscovered!"

 

[thomas15]

.................Also, there was "insight" granted by the Lord, as per prophet daniel, books of prophecy to be closed off until end of days, and isreal returning to land might be the key to having those truths'rediscovered!"

There is something to be said about the concept of a development of theological systems. Over the centuries we see an emphasis on different theological topics such as the nature of the triune God, salvation by grace through faith and/or the Diety of Christ, just to name a few.

A nice little volume just released edited by John MacArthur et el: Christ's Prophetic Plans: A Futuristic Premillennial Primer 2012 Moody Press edited by Richard Mayhue, John F MacArthur, contributors Nathan Busenitz, Matthew Waymeyer and Michael Vlach.

 

[Yeshua1]

There is something to be said about the concept of a development of theological systems. Over the centuries we see an emphasis on different theological topics such as the nature of the triune God, salvation by grace through faith and/or the Diety of Christ, just to name a few.

A nice little volume just released edited by John MacArthur et el: Christ's Prophetic Plans: A Futuristic Premillennial Primer 2012 Moody Press edited by Richard Mayhue, John F MacArthur, contributors Nathan Busenitz, Matthew Waymeyer and Michael Vlach.

Think people forget that almost ALL systems of theology came over extended period of time, none really overnight, and still think the prophetic views of Amil came in mainly due toa changefrom seeingscripture in a literal fashion to a spiritual ciew under Augustine and company!

 

[thomas15]

Think people forget that almost ALL systems of theology came over extended period of time, none really overnight, and still think the prophetic views of Amil came in mainly due toa changefrom seeingscripture in a literal fashion to a spiritual ciew under Augustine and company!

I think I got that.

It is interesting how the deep thinkers like Kenneth Gentry and Gary (the pipsqueek) DeMar insist that their version of eschatology is the true literal interpretation of the Scriptures and that the dispies use allegory!

 

[Yeshua1]

I think I got that.

It is interesting how the deep thinkers like Kenneth Gentry and Gary (the pipsqueek) DeMar insist that their version of eschatology is the true literal interpretation of the Scriptures and that the dispies use allegory!

that ties right into their belief that the rapture is esacpist theology, that means the church lost/was defeated, as they hold the church to be taking over society/culture for Christ, really Post Mil views!

 

[thomas15]

that ties right into their belief that the rapture is esacpist theology, that means the church lost/was defeated, as they hold the church to be taking over society/culture for Christ, really Post Mil views!

It is true that one of the purposes, perhaps the main purpose of the church assembly is to bring glory to God. The main task of the members of said assembly is to spread the Gospel and to make disciples. There is nothing in the Bible that would argue against the removal of the church at the end of this age. There is much evidence that the church is removed, raptured and ruling and reigning with Christ at the restoration of all things. It really comes down to taking God at his word.

Those who do not see it this way have no problem with using charts and diagrams to put every theological doctrine and concept into precise Biblical perspective except eschatology. There they allow gaps and wiggle room and/or simply ignore key passages to make their case.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is true that one of the purposes, perhaps the main purpose of the church assembly is to bring glory to God. The main task of the members of said assembly is to spread the Gospel and to make disciples. There is nothing in the Bible that would argue against the removal of the church at the end of this age. There is much evidence that the church is removed, raptured and ruling and reigning with Christ at the restoration of all things. It really comes down to taking God at his word.

Those who do not see it this way have no problem with using charts and diagrams to put every theological doctrine and concept into precise Biblical perspective except eschatology. There they allow gaps and wiggle room and/or simply ignore key passages to make their case.

Interesting that some would see us being raptured out a sign of weakness and puny saints, as jesus said that he Himself would come back for us and take us to be home with Him!

Doesn't he realise that his views would be 'wrong?"

 

[thomas15]

Interesting that some would see us being raptured out a sign of weakness and puny saints, as jesus said that he Himself would come back for us and take us to be home with Him!....

Amen my brother!

 

[thomas15]

...Doesn't he realise that his views would be 'wrong?"

Either doesn't realize or doesn't think such a "trivial" matter is important or doesn't care. The church assembly clearly has a different ministry compared to the nation of Israel which was not tasked with spreading the Gospel and making disciples for Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

Interesting that some would see us being raptured out a sign of weakness and puny saints, as jesus said that he Himself would come back for us and take us to be home with Him!

Doesn't he realise that his views would be 'wrong?"

Jesus Christ is coming back for us, just not until the time of the general resurrection!

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus Christ is coming back for us, just not until the time of the general resurrection!

Actually, its at time of the Rapture of the Church!

 

[jilphn1022]

The Partial Rapture View

/ Here's another intriguing article I ran into on the web./

The Partial Rapture View

"church" RAPTURE "church"
(present age) (tribulation)

Hal Lindsey's "The Rapture" (1983, p. 26) says partial rapturists see only "spiritual" church members in the rapture and only "carnal" members of the church in the tribulation. John Walvoord's "The Rapture Question" (1979, p. 97) refers to partial rapturists as "pretribulationists." Leading partial rapturists including Pember and Govett see all of the "church" on earth before a pretrib rapture and only part of the "church" left behind to be tried by the Antichrist - truly the "church-splitting" view as shown in the above chart!
In the spring of 1830 Scottish lassie Margaret Macdonald was first to teach a pretrib rapture. It was actually an early version of partial rapturism because she said that after the rapture of "church" members "filled with the Spirit," the "church" members "who had not the Spirit" would be left behind to be tried by "THE WICKED" one (Antichrist). In Sep.1830 Edward Irving's journal "The Morning Watch" (hereafter: TMW) was the first to publicly echo her novel view when it stated that "Philadelphia" (the "spiritual" part of the universal church) is raptured before "the great tribulation" while "Laodicea" (the "carnal" part of that universal group) is left on earth.
John Darby, the so-called "father of dispensationalism," was still defending the historical posttrib rapture ("Christian Herald," Dec. 1830) which he described as Christ's coming for "His judging of the nations."
Pretrib didn't spring from a "church/Israel" dichotomy, as many have assumed, but from a "church/church" one, as we've seen, and was based only on symbols!
But innate anti-Jewishness soon appeared. (As noted, TMW (Sep. 1830) saw less worthy "church" members left behind.) Two years later (Sep. 1832) TMW said that "Jews" and less worthy Christians would miss the rapture. But by Mar. 1833 TMW was sure that only "Jews" would face the Antichrist!
As late as 1837 the non-dichotomous Darby saw the church "going in with Him to the marriage, to wit, with Jerusalem and the Jews." And he didn't clearly teach pretrib until 1839. His basis then was the Rev. 12:5 "man child...caught up" symbol he'd "borrowed" (without giving credit) from Irving who had been the first to use it for the same purpose in 1831!
For related articles Google "X-Raying Margaret," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "Pretrib Rapture's Missing Lines," "The Unoriginal John Darby," "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" and "Scholars Weigh My Research." The most detailed and accurate book on pretrib rapture history is "The Rapture Plot" (see Armageddon Books online) - a 300-pager that has hundreds of disarming facts (like the ones above) not found in any other source.

 

[Iconoclast]

I think I got that.

It is interesting how the deep thinkers like Kenneth Gentry and Gary (the pipsqueek) DeMar insist that their version of eschatology is the true literal interpretation of the Scriptures and that the dispies use allegory!

:laugh: Oh yeah, I am sure they would quake in their boots when faced with Thomas 15 questions and answers...:laugh::applause::laugh:

They would dispense with you in less than 5 minutes....lol

 

[Yeshua1]

:laugh: Oh yeah, I am sure they would quake in their boots when faced with Thomas 15 questions and answers...:laugh::applause::laugh:

They would dispense with you in less than 5 minutes....lol

perhaps, but it would NOT be because of proper understanding of eschatology!