John Owen On 2 Peter 3:9

[Jarthur001]

Speaking of Owens...

Here is a good link.

http://theessentialowen.com/

TODAY"S POST..

The Pruning Of The Graces Of God

By thepuritans
Mortification prunes all the graces of God, and makes room for them in our hearts to grow. The life and vigour of our spiritual lives consists in the vigour and flourishing of the plants of grace in our hearts. Now, as you may see in a garden, let there be a precious herb planted, and let the ground be untilled, and weeds grow about it, perhaps it will live still, but be a poor, withering, unuseful thing. You must look and search for it, and sometimes can scarce find it; and when you do, you can scarce know it, whether it be the plant you look for or no; and suppose it be, you can make no use of it at all. When, let another of the same kind be set in the ground, naturally as barren and bad as the other, but let it be well weeded ,and every thing that is noxious and hurtful removed from it,—it flourishes and thrives; you may see it at first look into the garden, and have it for your use when you please. So it is with the graces of the Spirit that are planted in our hearts. That is true; they are still, they abide in a heart where there is some neglect of mortification; but they are ready to die, Rev. iii 2, they are withering and decaying.
The heart is like the sluggard’s field,—so overgrown with weeds that you can scarce see the good corn. Such a man may search for faith, love, and zeal, and scarce be able to find any; and if he do discover that these graces are there yet alive aud sincere, yet they are so weak, so clogged with lusts, that they are of very little use; they remain, indeed, but are ready to die. But now let the heart be cleansed by mortification, the weeds of lust constantly and daily rooted up (as they spring daily, nature being their proper soil), let room be made for grace to thrive and flourish,—how will every grace act its part, and be ready for every use and purpose!

- John Owen -​

from The Mortification of Sin in Believers, volume 6 of Works, page 23

 

[Jarthur001]

To quote Gill: "comes not much short of extreme madness and folly."

This not only describes Gill's commentary on this passage, but Calvinism in general. They take the plain teachings of scripture and twist them to say what they do not say.

Give a Christian a New Testament, and let him read it.

How many books by Owen or Gill have you read?

Then, without any outside input see if they come up with this thing called Calvinism. It takes a cleverly designed twisting of the Word of God to find most points of TULIP in any of God's Word!

twist?

What does the word hate mean in Romans 9? What does God's Word say?

 

[Robert Snow]

How many books by Owen or Gill have you read?

Why should I waste my time reading trash?

twist?

What does the word hate mean in Romans 9? What does God's Word say?

That's right, twist. Calvinists twist the scripture in an attempt to make it say something it doesn't say in the least.

What does "hate" mean in Luke 14:26!

 

[Luke2427]

Why should I waste my time reading trash?



That's right, twist. Calvinists twist the scripture in an attempt to make it say something it doesn't say in the least.

What does "hate" mean in Luke 14:26!

You of all people ought to know the meaning of the word "hate".

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why should I waste my time reading trash?

Ah, my, my, my......Calling a Godly Man's work trash? Thats shameful Robert! What's going on with you? Please consider taking time off this board if its causing angry outbursts like that. PM me if you need to talk dear brother.

Sincerely

 

[asterisktom]

It's good to see you back posting here Tom. I hope all has been well with you.

......and AMEN!

Thank you, Ky. I am doing fine. Teaching has been taking most of my time, but I hope to be more active here again.

 

[Robert Snow]

I regret using the word "trash" in describing John Gill's writings. I have on occasion looked at his commentary. I have it on E-Sword. I am sure that he along with many others strive to bring light to difficult passages, but I don't usually agree with the Calvinistic tendencies reformed theologians lean towards. I just don't agree with most of what Calvinists say the bible teaches.

 

[Rippon]

I regret using the word "trash" in describing John Gill's writings.

Well,that's certainly a step in the right direction. By the way, James had mentioned both Gill and Owen. Have you read any works of Owen? Or did you just lump him in there for convenience sake?

I have on occasion looked at his commentary. I have it on E-Sword. I am sure that he along with many others strive to bring light to difficult passages, but I don't usually agree with the Calvinistic tendencies reformed theologians lean towards. I just don't agree with most of what Calvinists say the bible teaches.

Gill is invaluable -- but has his share of imperfections. Charles Spurgeon thought very highly of his works. He bought his twin sons Gill's commentaries before their teens.

I think if you actually spent some concentrated time reading Gill,for instance,that you would end up agreeing with him most of the time. He brings things out that are very informative and edifying. He continues to be quite the blessing to the Church.

 

[asterisktom]

Well,that's certainly a step in the right direction. By the way, James had mentioned both Gill and Owen. Have you read any works of Owen? Or did you just lump him in there for convenience sake?

Although there are points where I definitely do not agree with John Owen, I have to say that he has written much that has greatly blessed me. He is most definitely well worth the study. Ages Software had a CD of his works (around 30 dollars from CBD). The highlights for me are the 7 volume commentary on Hebrews, his Christiologia, Death of Death, and his various sermons.

A persons calling his writings trash tells me all I need to know about that person.

 

[Robert Snow]

Well,that's certainly a step in the right direction. By the way, James had mentioned both Gill and Owen. Have you read any works of Owen? Or did you just lump him in there for convenience sake?

I misspoke, I was talking about Gill. It's been a long day!

I think if you actually spent some concentrated time reading Gill,for instance,that you would end up agreeing with him most of the time. He brings things out that are very informative and edifying. He continues to be quite the blessing to the Church.

I have nothing against Spurgeon. I have read some of what he has written. I own, A Treasury of David, but I am at a loss at the measure of adoration Calvinists give this one man.

 

[Rippon]

A Note

Sometimes the original work of an older author may be tough for a modern reader. Grace Publications does abridgements of Christian Classics. The website is : www.gracepublications.co.uk

I have God's Grace which is a shorter treatment of Reign of Grace originally done by Abraham Booth.

I also have God Willing which is a reader's digest version of Mystery of Providence by John Flavel.

I've got : Born Slaves which simplifies Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther.

I own the original work by James Buchanan called : Justification. Grace Pub.'s version is named Not Guilty.

And of course, I own and treasure John Owen's original book : The Death of Death in the Death of Christ. A much easier-to-read condensation is Life By His Death.

There are other titles that I do not own such as Biblical Christianity. That's a much easier-to-understand treatment of John Calvin's Institutes Of The Christian Religion.

Go for them!

 

[Iconoclast]

Very nice post and thread.
Owen provides good food for the sheep,as he is always Christ centered and scriptural in his writing. Only goats [or really sick,infirmed sheep]would not enjoy sheep food.

 

[Iconoclast]

Very nice post and thread.
Owen provides good food for the sheep,as he is always Christ centered and scriptural in his writing. Only goats [or really sick,infirmed sheep]would not enjoy sheep food.

The funny thing is that Peter himself could post on BB and explain the passage as Owen has...and the same people would object to Peter,and critique him for saying that the elect are foreknown by God.

 

[Bro. James]

We do err..

Not knowing the scripture and power of God. We say sola scriptura and then quote men/women. Whatever happened to seeking the whole counsel of God through The Spirit, The Holy, who leads in all Truth(The Word) through the New Testament Assembly?

We can argue about nuances of "whosoever" and "any" ad infinitum; but the meaning of Ephesians Ch. 1 leaves no room for ambiguity. Study carefully God's purpose and pleasure and apply the results to our theology and soteriology. Maybe that is our problem: we have too many DD--ologists.

Are'nt we smart: we, the clay, would define the potter.

Amazing Grace--He saved a wretch like me.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[asterisktom]

Not knowing the scripture and power of God. We say sola scriptura and then quote men/women. Whatever happened to seeking the whole counsel of God through The Spirit, The Holy, who leads in all Truth(The Word) through the New Testament Assembly?

We can argue about nuances of "whosoever" and "any" ad infinitum; but the meaning of Ephesians Ch. 1 leaves no room for ambiguity. Study carefully God's purpose and pleasure and apply the results to our theology and soteriology. Maybe that is our problem: we have too many DD--ologists.

Are'nt we smart: we, the clay, would define the potter.

Amazing Grace--He saved a wretch like me.

Selah,

Bro. James

Variations on the just-me-and-my-Bible theme. The same people who take this high road still want us to consider their words.

If the Bible is all we need then we don't need discussion groups. All books are - the good ones, at least - are condensations of somebody's previous discussion (iron sharpening iron) archived into print. God has a part in all that as well. The discussions, after all, are about the Bible.

When Paul told the Roman Christians that he was confident that they were well equipped and able to admonish each other he didn't mean merely to parrot Scripture, but to expound it and apply it.

And the result of this expounding and applying is theology.

 

[Rippon]

F.T.

Elencticae , p. 96 on 2 Peter 3:9

The will of God here spoken of should not be extended further than to the elect and believers, for whose sake God puts off the consumation of ages, until their number shall be completed. This is evident from the pronoun US which precedes, with sufficient clearness designating the elect and believers, as elsewhere more than once, and to explain which he adds, not willing that any, that is, of us, should perish.

A discussion of 2 Peter 3:9 is currently on another thread. I thought I would get folks to notice this one.

 

[David Lamb]

I know you're joking JD , but others may have the same response in a serious fashion . They should pay attention to him . Owen ( 1616-1683 ) was the greatest of the British Puritans . Only Richard Baxter outdid him in sheer quantity of material written . Owen was the superior theologian . He was a nonconformist and was instrumental in drafting the modification of the Westmister Confession called the Savoy Declaration . The 1689 Baptist Confession is closer to the Savoy than the Westmister Confession .

Owen was a good friend and supporter of John Bunyan . He actually secured his release from prison . Owen admired his preaching -- " I'd gladly relinguish all my learning to preach like that man ."

Roger Nicole , Sinclair Ferguson and J.I. Packer all rate him as a greater influence on their lives than even Jonathan Edwards .

I have just received a copy of The Shaping of a Colchester Church, which was wriiten on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of Prettygate Baptist Church in Colchester, Essex, the first church I joined after my conversion.

In an opening chapter setting the scene by outlining the history of evangelical Christianity in and around Colchester, there is this paragraph about John Owen, which may be helpful to anyone who really does not know about him [my notes in red]:

John Owen, perhaps England's greatest theologian, was persuaded of Independency through reading John Cotton's The Keys of the Kingdom while rector of the parish church at Fordham near Colchester in 1643. Owen set up the parish church at Coggeshall [village about 7 miles from Fordham] on congregational lines, preaching to congregations of 2,000. [That's for a village with a population well under 5000!]. Invited by Fairfax [Sir Thomas Fairfax 1612-1671, Leading Parliamentarian general of the First and Second Civil Wars and Lord-General of Cromwell's New Model Army] to preach at the Siege of Colchester in 1648, and to Parliament the day after the execution of Charles I, he became an influential church leader during Cromwell's Commonwealth. In 1658 he collaborated with other Independents to produce the Savoy Declaration of Faith (essentially the Presbyterian Westminster Confession, authorised by the Long Parliament 1643-49, but with a congregational view of church government). This formed the basis of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, which added believers' baptism and is still considered persuasive by Grace Baptist churches like Prettygate today.
​

 

[Luke2427]

I am no John Owens by any means but I said this same thing on a previous thread:

Everything in that text plainly refers to God's elect:

1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise (this promise is clearly for the people of God), as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward (to us, who?- the "you" who have "pure minds" in verse one; the ones to whom God has given this precious promise of SALVATION in verse 15- the VERY same promises Peter opens his epistle speaking about in verse 4 of chapter 1. It CERTAINLY does not refer to the false teachers of chapter 2! So then it MUST refer to God's people.), not willing that any (who is the any then of necessity? OBVIOUSLY the ones to WHOM PETER IS SPEAKING- the people of God.) should perish, but that all should come to repentance (God is not willing that any of his elect shall perish but is instead longsuffering towards them willing rather that all of them come to repentance).

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, (Once again the promise is to US- God's people.) look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[preacher4truth]

Variations on the just-me-and-my-Bible theme. The same people who take this high road still want us to consider their words. If the Bible is all we need then we don't need discussion groups. All books are - the good ones, at least - are condensations of somebody's previous discussion (iron sharpening iron) archived into print. God has a part in all that as well. The discussions, after all, are about the Bible. When Paul told the Roman Christians that he was confident that they were well equipped and able to admonish each other he didn't mean merely to parrot Scripture, but to expound it and apply it. And the result of this expounding and applying is theology.

Amen, very well said.

The "Bible only" crowd (and I guarantee you they are not "bible only") tend to come across as some elite group within "Christendom."

We know what 1 Corinthians says about schism and belonging to a group, causing division.

And note, not 1 verse of Scripture from the "Bible only fellow" Bro James.

Interesting? Yup.

 

[Skandelon]

In a world where God decrees all things that come to pass, how does one distinguish from the truth written by Owen and the inspired words of the gospel writers?

In other words, on what basis is there biblical authority if all truth is "decreed by God" in the manner expounded upon by many Calvinists?