John Owen On 2 Peter 3:9

[percho]

began what? I am not sure how this response fits the questions asked.
can you clarify it a bit more?

Skan;
[QUOTEEven Calvinists affirm that God desires for all to be saved in that He doesn't take pleasure in the perishing of the wicked]

Agreed that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked....but that does not address the issue in that you still claim a slightly wounded adam, while the bible declares dying thou shalt surely die![/QUOTE]

With the death and resurrection of Jesus the salvation of man began. He has elected, called out, some and made known to them the mystery of his will.

This is all related to post 52. All the way from Genesis God has stated what he is doing and how.

 

[Van]

Calvinists pile fiction on fiction. Non-Calvinists differ as to God's purpose and plan of salvation, and we do not assume God uses compulsion rather than persuasion. Love does not demand its own way and God is love.

Calvinists must know they are presenting fiction when they claim non-Calvinists do not believe God is all powerful. Yet they post the fiction over and over and over again.

They want to talk about the merits of various commentators, but not about the specifics of the commentary.

2 Peter 3:9 clearly demonstrates Calvinism does not mesh with scripture. So they post commentary from folks who misrepresent the verse.

Their silly view is God is delaying His judgment so none of the elect will perish. Think about it. Can any charge be brought against God's elect? Of course not. So why would they perish? Or why would God not cause all the elect to be born in the first 40 generations. Why drag it our and cause more non-elect to be punished in Hell. The more you think about the premise, the more is reeks of falsehood.

 

[Skandelon]

in that you still claim a slightly wounded adam

Where did I make that claim?

My claim was that God's Holy Spirit wrought powerful gospel appeal of reconciliation is sufficient to bring salvation to a fallen race. In your view its powerless to most of humanity and is only effective for those first born again. In my view, the gospel has the power to save, just as Paul teaches.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Calvinists must know they are presenting fiction when they claim non-Calvinists do not believe God is all powerful. Yet they post the fiction over and over and over again.


Then why do you perpetuate it?

 

[Van]

Yet another Calvinist trying to shift discussion from doctrine to behavior. See a pattern of evasion of the truth? Why not discuss our various actual positions, rather than strawman argument denials.

God is delaying to give us, believers, time to help win more of the lost, because God does not desire that any should perish. That is the non-Calvinist position. And this position does not question whether God is powerful enough to accomplish His purpose and plan.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yet another Calvinist trying to shift discussion from doctrine to behavior. See a pattern of evasion of the truth? Why not discuss our various actual positions, rather than strawman argument denials.

God is delaying to give us, believers, time to help win more of the lost, because God does not desire that any should perish. That is the non-Calvinist position. And this position does not question whether God is powerful enough to accomplish His purpose and plan.

I'm what you would call a "calvinist" although I've read very little of what he has said. I agree with you that His will is none would perish. Of course it is, it has to be. But it just won't happen.

Calm down a little. You're emotional.

 

[Rippon]

Or why would God not cause all the elect to be born in the first 40 generations. Why drag it our and cause more non-elect to be punished in Hell. The more you think about the premise, the more is reeks of falsehood.

The Lord didn't cause all the elect to be born in the first 40 generations. Are you upset with God because of that? "Why drag it out?" You sound like those who Peter refers to "as some men count slackness"(KJV).

The more you meditate on it,the more you realize that your philosophy is deficient and not in line with Scripture.

 

[Van]

God is not slow in coming in judgment, he is delaying to give us time to help win more for Christ. Now that does not take a lot of meditation. What takes meditation is answering the question of why everyone cannot get the same message from 2 Peter 3:9.

I asked a question and the response was an evasion, my question was not answered, but instead yet another question was posed. Clearly those responding like that know they are evading the subject, yet do not feel they should repent. More to meditate on.

The question is "why would the Lord not cause all the elect to be born in the first generations, why would He not front load it?" I suspect the Calvinists have not meditated on that. Their whole premise reeks of falsehood.

 

[Rippon]

The question is "why would the Lord not cause all the elect to be born in the first generations, why would He not front load it?" I suspect the Calvinists have not meditated on that. Their whole premise reeks of falsehood.

And I gave you my scriptural answer which you have ignored. "The Lord of that promise is not slack (as some men count slackness) from the 1599 Geneva.

You seem to object to God's ways. You don't like the fact that the Lord has waited as long as He has. He has His reasons. Don't dare fight Him over it. Why hasn't He front loaded it indeed? His ways are highrer than yours Van.

 

[Van]

Yet another evasion, another lack of response, and another attack on my character. No one is saying the Lord is slow, so the fact that the Lord is not slow does not answer the question. Yet it is claimed to answer the question. Scripture does indeed answer the question. But no Calvinist will point to 2 Peter 3:9 and say to provide time for us to help win believers. There would be no reason to wait if God had chosen to accomplish salvation by irresistible grace.

 

[JesusFan]

Yet another evasion, another lack of response, and another attack on my character. No one is saying the Lord is slow, so the fact that the Lord is not slow does not answer the question. Yet it is claimed to answer the question. Scripture does indeed answer the question. But no Calvinist will point to 2 Peter 3:9 and say to provide time for us to help win believers. There would be no reason to wait if God had chosen to accomplish salvation by irresistible grace.

Actually God has chosen to save His elected out peoples same way ...

By them placing their faith in Jesus Christ as the propiation in full for their sins, and receive the grace to become Children of God thru faith alone in Jesus alone...

And that come about by hearing the preaching of the Gospel, and the elect will than have"irresistable grace" affect them and enable them to believe on One they are hearing about!

 

[Rippon]

Yet another evasion, another lack of response, and another attack on my character. No one is saying the Lord is slow, so the fact that the Lord is not slow does not answer the question. Yet it is claimed to answer the question. Scripture does indeed answer the question. But no Calvinist will point to 2 Peter 3:9 and say to provide time for us to help win believers. There would be no reason to wait if God had chosen to accomplish salvation by irresistible grace.

Twice now I have answered your queries from the text itself --yet you are not satisfied. Instead you accuse God with absurd things:

Why doesn't He front-load it? Why doesn't God cause all of the elect to be born in the first 40 generations --why drag it out and cause more non-elect to be punished in Hell?

Blasphemous notions from your keystrokes Van.

 

[Rippon]

In the passage it indicates that God delays just long enough to call all of those to repentance who He has determined (before the world was made) should believe.

God is not slack --that doesn't delay His final justice -- what delays it is His patience. His patience is for the purpose that he can receive each and every one of His own.

Every one of God's elect will come to Christ and constitute the full number of the people of God.

 

[TomVols]

Every one of God's elect will come to Christ and constitute the full number of the people of God.

I can't help but think of the song of the Redeemed in Revelation when I read this sentence. Every tribe, every tongue......from every social sphere.....all there due to the sovereign salvific grace of God.

 

[Rippon]

I can't help but think of the song of the Redeemed in Revelation when I read this sentence. Every tribe, every tongue......from every social sphere.....all there due to the sovereign salvific grace of God.

A cause for rejoicing!

 

[preacher4truth]

Twice now I have answered your queries from the text itself --yet you are not satisfied. Instead you accuse God with absurd things:

Why doesn't He front-load it? Why doesn't God cause all of the elect to be born in the first 40 generations --why drag it out and cause more non-elect to be punished in Hell?

Blasphemous notions from your keystrokes Van.

Yep. More clay replying against the Potter. Why people hate Gods Sovereignty is beyond me. Yet they want to sing songs in how they trust Him.

 

[Van]

Yet another evasion coupled with an attack on me personally. That is all the Calvinists have, evade and attack.

Why would God delay calling who he previously elected? No answer will be forthcoming.

No, the only answer that makes sense is that God is waiting for us to help bring more lost people into the fold. This makes sense if our actions are volitional and the response of those who hear the call are volitional. Then the delay makes sense. But for God to delay bringing about a foregone outcome makes no sense. So it is not God, but Calvinism that says we should accept nonsense. And that is a blasphemous notion.

 

[Van]

I accept what the Potter says, it is Calvinism that hates God's soveriegnity. I accept what scripture says, Calvinism rewrites it. Take 2 Peter 3:9!!!

 

[Van]

Reply to Jesusfan

Actually God has chosen to save His elected out peoples same way ...

By them placing their faith in Jesus Christ as the propiation in full for their sins, and receive the grace to become Children of God thru faith alone in Jesus alone...

And that come about by hearing the preaching of the Gospel, and the elect will than have"irresistable grace" affect them and enable them to believe on One they are hearing about!

So you are saying God is waiting to bring judgment in order to allow people to choose to put their faith in Jesus? But if He has already elected them individually, and He causes them to put their faith in Jesus via "irresistible grace" then why does He not simply cause all the elect to come to faith. Why drag it out? Why not just accept what 2 Peter 3:9 says. God is delaying to allow time for us to help bring more of the lost to God for He does not desire that any should perish. If He has already chosen, then delay just causes more to perish, the opposite of what the verse says. See the problem?

 

[Iconoclast]

Yet another evasion coupled with an attack on me personally. That is all the Calvinists have, evade and attack.

Why would God delay calling who he previously elected? No answer will be forthcoming.

Hey VAN.....maybe, just maybe all the elect are not born yet! I do not mean to confuse you with this idea...but have you considered that there might be people that are going to become saved by God's grace in the year 2124!
God would be longsuffering until all he died for are saved..NONE OF THEM
will perish.....All THe Father gives shall come......He is not willing that any of them perish.....all {of those elect will be saved}
This is what all of us believe,because this is the clear teaching of the whole chapter from start to finish.


No, the only answer that makes sense is that God is waiting for us to help
Only you believe this idea.We believe what the passage says.
God has decreed destined that none perish....those spoken of here will never perish.

bring more lost people into the fold. This makes sense if our actions are volitional and the response of those who hear the call are volitional. Then the delay makes sense. But for God to delay bringing about a foregone outcome makes no sense.

It makes no sense to YOU because you resist the true teaching,then expect it to make sense
So it is not God, but Calvinism that says we should accept nonsense. And that is a blasphemous notion.

You have been given answers many times...and you violently oppose yourself ,drifting into confused and mixed thoughts.
Take a fresh look at the answers you have been given.