John Robertson and New Teaching

[Rippon]

I am dangerous? You teach that before the foundation of the world that God chose to create billions of people he had no intention of ever saving and tortures them forever in hell for his glory and pleasure.

Do you believe that the Lord owes mankind salvation? Isn't His grace/mercy reserved for those that He wants to extend it to? The Lord is under no obligation to save anyone yet He chose to save a remnant. You don't like that. The Scriptures say not to talk back to the Lord.

Tortures them forever in Hell for His pleasure?! Who from the Calvinist side has said that on the BB? But the Lord is glorified in the damnation of the wicked.

People that were born sinners through no fault of their own who cannot possibly escape their sinfulness.

Christ is their only hope. That is the stark,naked truth.

God will judge which one of us was teaching truth and which one taught lies.

I have made a judgment call that you are the one.

 

[Winman]

Salvation is by grace, no one deserves it. Nevertheless, the scriptures say Jesus died for all men and that God is not willing that any should perish. Salvation is available to all upon the condition they trust Jesus alone to save them.

In the non-Cal view, all men have the ability to trust Christ if they choose to do so. The only thing that prevents them from being saved is their own unwillingness to submit to God trusting Christ.

In the Cal/Ref view, no man has the ability to trust Christ unless God regenerates them. If God has chosen to pass you by and not regenerate you, you cannot possibly believe, or even desire to believe.

This would be just if a man willfully chose to be an unregenerate sinner, but that is not what Calvinism teaches. It teaches that a person is a sinner the moment they are conceived through no choice of that person, or even any actual sin committed by that person.

So, in Calvinism, the damned are those whom God has chosen to pass over, and there is nothing the unelect can do to be saved.

In Calvinism, God is very willing that many perish, which directly contradicts the word of God.

 

[JesusFan]

I am dangerous? You teach that before the foundations of the world that God chose to create billions of people he had no intention of ever saving and tortures them forever in hell for his glory and pleasure. People that were born sinners through no fault of their own who cannot possibly escape their sinfulness.

And you call me dangerous?

God will judge which one of us was teaching truth and which one taught lies.

Are you sure that he holds to that exactly, sounds like more Hyper Cal to me, not broadstream version of it!

Think that his points conserning tht theology is NOT determined in a vacuum, but have to factor in the historical look at it is valid, what do you think?

 

[JesusFan]

Salvation is by grace, no one deserves it. Nevertheless, the scriptures say Jesus died for all men and that God is not willing that any should perish. Salvation is available to all upon the condition they trust Jesus alone to save them.

Jesus "might' have died to atone for all men, but JUST to those whom He had determined to have it benefiticial grace effectually apllied towards receive its merits!

In the non-Cal view, all men have the ability to trust Christ if they choose to do so. The only thing that prevents them from being saved is their own unwillingness to submit to God trusting Christ.

Since all people in their fallen sinful natures are at war with/against God, and that NONE can and will submit to God, no one would ever get saved by that theology, NOT unless they could freely will themselves to receive Christ, but nonecan do such!

Think you have not a well understanding of just exactly what cal teach, and would also not really understand the nature of the fall, and how that affected our human state/condition!

In the Cal/Ref view, no man has the ability to trust Christ unless God regenerates them. If God has chosen to pass you by and not regenerate you, you cannot possibly believe, or even desire to believe.

You would just being left in your "natural" state, with no desires to even come to jesus and get saved!

This would be just if a man willfully chose to be an unregenerate sinner, but that is not what Calvinism teaches. It teaches that a person is a sinner the moment they are conceived through no choice of that person, or even any actual sin committed by that person.

yes, you have finally agreed with scripture here, in that ALL men were counted by God to be found in Adam, and are sinners soiritually dead before God!

So, in Calvinism, the damned are those whom God has chosen to pass over, and there is nothing the unelect can do to be saved.

Actually, the saved do not save themselves either, as that is the work and business of God! The unsaved will have no desires to come to jesus to get saved, so God allows them "free will" to do what they would do naturally anyway!

In Calvinism, God is very willing that many perish, which directly contradicts the word of God.

God is not willing that His elect would ever perish, but by/through the Cross, they would receive Christ and eternal life.
he does NOT predestined the lost by Divine will, He DOES detrmined where they will go as lost sinners who also refused to come to Christ..
God actively predestines the saved to come to Christ and get saved!

As that is the final verdict, that the light of the Cross has come to all men, and those whom are sinners decided to stay off in their darkness, as God DOES NOT cause one to remain lost, that is their natural state, itsjust that he has elected those will come to the Christ of the Cross and be saved!