Jonah-Dead or Alive?

[Justified]

I have been involved in some interesting studies and debates on this issue, and we all learned alot from Scripture even though we all did not agree. We learned to disagree, agreeably.

So, this subject has nothing to do with doctrinal statements, or with your salvation.

I know that the Bible does not come right out and say anything about Jonah in the fish, as to whether he was alive the whole time, or dead and then ressurected.

I will post my views later on this thread. My Pastor is registered on this board and him and I stand on oppisite sides of the issue. We have had fun debating and researching this question.

So! Dead or Alive?
********************************************
My original title and post: Job-Dead or Alive

[ July 23, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Justified ]

 

[Daniel David]

I cannot speak for others on this thread, but I don't think the story of Job and the fish is even real. There is absolutely no grounds for such a story.

I think the story of Job was real.

I think the story of Jonah and the fish was real.

I think it is a stretch to combine the two.

 

[tyndale1946]

Job chapter 41 the whole chapter is about leviathan but I don't ever remember Job being in his belly?... That was Jonah... Out of the belly of Hell cried I... And the fish that God prepared was a whale as the scriptures say. Leviathan well you make up your own mind on that creature and why did God devote a whole chapter on just this one part of his creation!... I feel that is the greater mystery that hides an even greater revelation!... Brother Glen

 

[tyndale1946]

Look at the comparison of these verses with the chapter previously mentioned...

Ezekiel 29:3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

4 But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

5 And I will leave thee thrown into the wilderness, thee and all the fish of thy rivers: thou shalt fall upon the open fields; thou shalt not be brought together, nor gathered: I have given thee for meat to the beasts of the field and to the fowls of the heaven. Here Pharoah king of Egypt is the great dragon as Satan is also called the same in the book of Revelation. So are we talking about a creature of the animal kingdom before man was made or something else!... Makes you think doesn't it!... Brother Glen

 

[Justified]

Lifes most embarassing moments!

Actually you two are on your toes to see it so quickly. LOL

I did mean Jonah, and have made the editting!

[ July 23, 2002, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Justified ]

 

[David Cooke Jr]

How about alive, but wished he was dead?

 

[Daniel David]

Justified, I was just pointing out the obvious typo in a sarcastic way.

If you have read any of my previous posts, I am an inerrantist.

I do think Jonah died in the belly of the whale.

Job, however, probably died a natural death.

 

[Justified]

Preach,

I'm sort of wishing I was dead.

LOL

The funny thing about this is, my middle son's name is Jonah. And when I was typing, I was thinking of something else. LOL

But, I still can't stop chuckling over this blunder of mine.

[ July 23, 2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Justified ]

 

[Scarlett O.]

Dear Justified,

We knew what you meant. Don't be embarrassed.

Well, anyways...

Jonah 2:1 "Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly..."

How could Jonah pray to get out of that fish if he were dead? Verse two says that he compared being in the belly of the fish to being in the belly of hell.

I sure his being alive in that fish would be more torment that if he were dead and didn't know anything.

Jonah 1:17 "Now the Lord prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah...."

If God wanted to make a special fish and halt its digestive system or even take it away, I, for one, believe He can do it!

Peace-

YSIC
Scarlett O.
<><

 

[kathy56]

Justified:

I tend to believe with the lovely Miss Scarlet. Dead people don't usually tend to pray!!
Why limit God in the way he prepared such a giant creatue to transport Jonah on this "Mystery" ride. God Ways are not always our Ways. Our minds are much to Small - say pea size in comparsion to the Almighty God. Not that I think it was a pleasant trip for him but it is not beyond God's limitations. Whyare we so eager to put God in Man's little box??

[ July 23, 2002, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: kathy56 ]

 

[LadyEagle]

Couple of thoughts about Jonah.

He was a great patriot. Something to think about.

Being in the belly of the fish was no picnic. Can we imagine the smell of rotting food and seaweed combined with acidic gastric/digestive juices of the great fish? Pretty dark, sticky, slimy, and gross smelling in there, too. Probably hard to breathe. Can't see. Pretty nasty. And if that isn't enough, vomited out. It might have been a blessing if he'd died and gotten away from the stench and grossness of the event. However, I, too, believe he was very much alive during the ordeal because he prayed and then lived to do what God intended for him to do.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Jonah may have done what God said to do, but he did not end a strong man. I think that he wanted those Assyrians to reject God and for God to wipe them out. He did not expect them to repent and God to forgive and love them.

His story ends with him pouting like a furiously spoiled child and not understanding the lesson God presented him at all. The book of Jonah ends with God rebuking Jonah.

Peace-

YSIC
Scarlett O.
<><

 

[Johnv]

It's interesting that we think of Jonah in the belly of a whale, because the KJV uses the word "whale" in Genesis 1 (in hebrew, tanniyn, meaning sea dragons or sea monsters), while in Jonah, it's a big fish (in hebrew dag which means fish like we know them).

Of course, whales as we know them now were thought back then to be fish. Additionally, Jonah and Genesis were written by two different people for two different purposes, so comparing the two definitions from two sources would be comaring apples to oranges.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Jonah was alive and well when he went into the fish's belly and alive (at least) when he was puked out.

A backslidden baptist preacher will even make a fish throw up!

The acidic content of the stomach would have bleached Jonah's skin into a pasty white and caused him to lose all body hair. I can imagine the sight of him walking into Nineveh a coupla weeks later, warning them of the judgment of God.

Kind like the rich man in hades being allowed to go back and warn his 5 brothers (story of Lazarus). Living object lesson.

And repent they did. God is gracious . . to Jonah and to Nineveh.

 

[latterrain77]

I don't see anything in the Jonah text itself, to indicate with a certainty, that Jonah was alive the full 3 days. It is possible - even likely that he was, but this is not explict in the Jonah text itself.

Yes, he did pray in the whale's belly, but it does not say that he prayed continuously for 3 days. Actually, the prayer seemed relatively brief (Jonah 2), and v.10 does not state plainly that the LORD "promptly and immediately" rescued Jonah at the conclusion of the prayer (though it is possible). Arguably, Jonah could have "died" sometime after praying, while still in the whale's belly.

The real key to answering the question with an absolute certainty, can be found in Matt. 12: 40. First, this verse demonstrates that Jesus himself confirmed the Jonah story as being true in a literal sense (Matt. 12: 40). It was a REAL whale/Sea Creature (not an allegoric one), it was a REAL 3 days (consisting of 24 hrs in the classic sense).

The Matt. 12: 40 text states that Jonah's experience in the whale's belly was; "AS" the Lord's experience spending 3 days and nights in "the heart of the earth." All that we need to do is determine what the LORD's experience was "in the heart of the earth" (did the LORD "die" in the heart of the earth experience, or not?). Once we have determined the answer to this, we can then figure out what happened to Jonah with an absolute certainty. Does anyone want to take a shot at figuring out what the the "heart of the earth" experience was?

latterrain77

 

[LadyEagle]

I don't see anything in the Jonah text itself, to indicate with a certainty, that Jonah was alive the full 3 days. It is possible - even likely that he was, but this is not explict in the Jonah text itself.

I am trying to picture in graphic detail what the insides of the great fish might have been like. Has anyone ever smelled dead rotting fish? Jonah may have passed out from the stench, but I do believe he was alive the whole time.

The body of Jesus was dead, but His spirit was alive. Perhaps the story of Jonah, while true, is also a "type" of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection...an illustration, if you will, yet another example of real OT events pointing to Calvary. At least that's the way I see it.

 

[Daniel David]

And he said: "I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me. "Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice.

Pretty difficult to cry from the grave if you are really alive.