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James_Newman said:[/font][/color][/b]
You knew it? Brother, I have a GED just like you, but you are giving GED's a bad name. Verse 3-9 goes right along with verse 2, it is his prayer that he prayed from the belly of the whale. So what if his prayer is giving account of what happened to him? Verse 1 speaks of Jonah in the third person. Verse 2 - 9, Jonah is speaking of himself in the first person. Then in verse 10, it is third person again. Everything between 'And said,' and 'And the LORD spoke unto the fish' is what Jonah said inside the belly of the whale. He is speaking to God, not the camera.
npetreley said:Sigh. I might have laughed it if wasn't so typical of uneducated views of Calvinism.
James_Newman said:[/font][/color][/b]
You knew it? Brother, I have a GED just like you, but you are giving GED's a bad name.
Herb Evans said:One way to end a debate with me is to start picking and choosing. Verse 3 starts with him being thrown off the boat. Verse one and two happen in the whale's belly. I did not go to all the trouble of answering your lengthy post to get this measley thing in return. -- Herb Evans
James_Newman said:Does that mean you concede that brother Mike was correct when he said that those verses were what Jonah spoke from inside the whale? Were you just disagreeing with him to be contradictory? Or maybe you really don't read the things we type very closely. I would love to continue answering every 'point', but you have to concede the point when you are wrong, or else I am just speaking into the air. Complaining that my post is too short is just nitpicking.
Hell doesn't have a belly? What kind of argument is that? Does hell have a mouth?Not unless hell has a belly. Do you have another place where hell has a belly? – Herb Evans
. . . or it is just a metaphor for his sufferings in the belly of the whale. –Mike Berzen
Yes, a descriptive metaphor uttered by Jonah and not the narrative description. – Herb Evans
If it is a metaphor, do you have other examples from the scriptures where anyone is afflicted in a metaphorical or figurative hell? – Mike Berzen
That is not the question. Do you have other passages from scriptures of the actual “belly” of hell? I posit this as Jonah’s description of Jonah’s whale belly sufferings, in a figurative way, as you suggested as a possibility above and to which I agreed. – Herb Evans
James_Newman said:Thankfully, I don't need your permission to 'pick and choose' so I am going to go ahead and pick another.
Herb Evans said:
There is every reason to believe that the heart of the earth means the center or middle of the earth, notwithstanding caves, Mausoleums, and sepulchers. Or words do not mean anything.
Exo 15:8 And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.
H3820 לבle^blabe
A form of H3824; the heart; also used (figuratively) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything: - + care for, comfortably, consent, X considered, courag [-eous], friend [-ly], ([broken-], [hard-], [merry-], [stiff-], [stout-], double) heart ([-ed]), X heed, X I, kindly, midst, mind (-ed), X regard ([-ed)], X themselves, X unawares, understanding, X well, willingly, wisdom.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
G2588 καρδίαkardiakar-dee'-ah
Prolonged from a primary κάρkar (Latin cor, “heart”); the heart, that is, (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle: - (+ broken-) heart (-ed).
Herb Evans said:Thankfully, I do not need your permission to ignore you or to participate in your pick and choose crossfire. -- Hreb Evans
Herb Evans said:No, it means that I am not going to allow you guys to pick and choose, whether you are right or wrong. And Jim, I have finished with you; you had your chance. So, get busy on the private e-mail and pool your info ! Amen! Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! Praise de Lawd! Does I have a witness? -- Herb Evans
Mike Berzins said:I don't want to go off on a tangent, but since you posted this here, I have to ask the question.
"Praise de Lawd! Does I have a witness?"
Is this a joke, or are you really praising the Lord?
Mike Berzins said:Nevertheless, the heart of the earth means simply inside the earth. There is no reason to believe the sepulcre was necessarily some crypt on the top of the earth. According to Genesis 23, a sepulcre could be a cave (see v. 6 and 9). If this sepulcre were hewn out of exisiting rock, forming a cave, then the Lord was truly buried in the ground and not just in some man made crypt. Just because someone is buried in a hill, and someone else on the earth might be lower than him does not mean the person is not buried in the ground. And someone buried in a sepulcre, that is a cave, is not buried on the top of the earth, but in the ground. The heart of the earth, means the inside of the earth, this includes anywhere under the ground, not just the "deepest hell" in the middle. Peter did go into the heart of the earth, to look for the Lord. – Mike Berzins
There is every reason to believe that the heart of the earth means the center or middle of the earth, notwithstanding caves, Mausoleums, and sepulchers. Or words do not mean anything. - Herb Evans
I agree that the heart of the earth means the center or the interior. The Greek or Hebrew defintions are unnecessary.
John24:12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Do you suppose he was stooping down because they made the opening very short, or because he was looking down a flight of stairs that led down under the earth. (The Lord was "buried", according to several scriptures, corrrect? not just placed in a mausoleum on the surface of the earth?) – Mike Berzins
I can’t believe that you would stretch and strain so to make this point. Jesus was laid in Joseph’s new TOMB, HEWN out in the ROCK Matt. 27:60. The women were plainning on coming back to anoint the body; were they planning on digging Jesus up? He no doubt stooped down because it was dark. My point, despite your ridiculous analogy, was that Jesus body was not in the heart of the earth. His Soul/Spirit was in the heart of the earth. – Herb Evans
My point was not that there was dirt piled on the Lord in the tomb that anyone had to dig him out of. My point is that if we was "buried" he must have been under the ground, not lying on top of the earth surrounded by a mausoleum. And I agree the Lord's soul was in the heart of the earth as well.
The Lord's body was in heart of the earth (the tomb) three days and three nights. Just like Jonah's body was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights. – Mike Berzins
NOT! Where was Jesus soul/Spirit? Still in the body? In heaven? Where? – Herb Evans
See above.
Herb Evans said:We started out this debate in serial point/counterpoint fashion, your new "picking and choosing" debate method is over. Also, Newman's "pick and choose" sniping, crossfire is being ignored by permission. -- Herb Evans
And Jim, I have finished with you; you had your chance.
Mike twisted my arm to give him a shot, so I did.
I can't sacrifice substance in order to answerr silly posts about myself. -- Herb Evans
Jumpy, I really do not want to debate you because you cause what the moderators call "spitting contests" and close the threads. I don't want to debate Lacy, because you cannot get a serious continuous point/counterpoint dialogue with him. I got what I wanted from Newman, who at least tried to debate point counterpoint Now, I am debating Mike, who tries to put words in my mouth; I do not know how long that will last. Just try not to be a thread killer, and I will leave you alone to whatever is your doctrine. -- Herb Evans
Lacy Evans said:
I'm so glad that Brother Herb came along when he did to show us all THE WAY of enlightened debate. A man of such noteriety is a blessing to be emulated by us all.
(If we did, the whole board would shut down in a week because anyone who lost an argument would blackball his opponent and soon no one would be left to debate.)
Oh by the way, Brother Herb, let me guess . . .:sleep:
Lacy