37818
Well-Known Member
No. I like that you posted them.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Judas and Last Supper
- Thread starter Reformed1689
- Start date
37818
Well-Known Member
I never claimed Judas was saved.
You used the phrase "Christ died for Judas" and I just stated what that phrase meant biblically.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I would have pasted them in the thread but it was too many words
What we DO see in Scripture is that Jesus knew Judas would betray Him, & He made it known to Judas that He knew.
This begs the question: Why did Judas betray Him?
The answer is, Iscariot was a Zealot, same as the other Judas. He became deeply disappointed when he realized Jesus was not going to use His power to free the Jews from Roman rule & therefore had to be eliminated. Best way he saw was the one he used. This shows that Judas didn't know Scripture too well, or he woulda realized that fact much-earlier.
Matt. 26:23 He answered and said, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?” He said to him, “You have said it.”
Mark 14:20 He answered and said to them, “It is one of the twelve, who dips with Me in the dish. 21 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.”
John 13:26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the table knew for what reason He said this to him.
So Jesus made it known to Judas that He knew of Judas' plan to betray Him. No, He didn't die for Judas' sins, but He gave Judas the opportunity to repent. But Judas didn't. While he lamented that he'd betrayed an innocent man, he didn't call on Jesus for forgiveness; he killed himself. so according to Jesus' words, he will be in the worst part of hell, with Satan himself, the beast & false prophet, the demons & evil spirits, & Hitler, Stalin, etc.
This begs the question: Why did Judas betray Him?
The answer is, Iscariot was a Zealot, same as the other Judas. He became deeply disappointed when he realized Jesus was not going to use His power to free the Jews from Roman rule & therefore had to be eliminated. Best way he saw was the one he used. This shows that Judas didn't know Scripture too well, or he woulda realized that fact much-earlier.
Matt. 26:23 He answered and said, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?” He said to him, “You have said it.”
Mark 14:20 He answered and said to them, “It is one of the twelve, who dips with Me in the dish. 21 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.”
John 13:26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the table knew for what reason He said this to him.
So Jesus made it known to Judas that He knew of Judas' plan to betray Him. No, He didn't die for Judas' sins, but He gave Judas the opportunity to repent. But Judas didn't. While he lamented that he'd betrayed an innocent man, he didn't call on Jesus for forgiveness; he killed himself. so according to Jesus' words, he will be in the worst part of hell, with Satan himself, the beast & false prophet, the demons & evil spirits, & Hitler, Stalin, etc.
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
Judas was there for the foot washing too, but the spiritual application did not extend to him, Jesus made that clear.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Joh 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray Him,
Joh 13:18 "I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS BREAD WITH ME HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.'
Joh 13:21 When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me."
Joh 13:26 Jesus answered, "It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it." And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
Joh 13:27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."
Jesus is also on record as saying that the one He gave the piece of bread to was the one that would betray Him. Once He had done this He told Judas to do what he intended to do. So your argument really falls flat.
Actually it is not that Judas was or was not there that matters. Jesus died for sinners so if Judas was a sinner then Christ Jesus died for him.
Rom 3:9 ...For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Rom 3:22 ...For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
So did Christ Jesus die for Judas, YES. Was Judas saved, NO and why, because he did not trust in Christ Jesus.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Clearly you did not read my post. We are not talking about whether or not he was there.
37818
Well-Known Member
1534 Tyndale, . . . supper was ended . . . .
1535 Coverdale, . . . after supper . . . .
1539 Great Bible, . . . supper was ended . . . .
1560 Geneva Bible, . . . supper was done . . . .
1568 Bishops Bible, . . . supper was ended . . . .
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yep, all wrong. Just reading the passage demonstrates this, this is not complicated.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Did you read my post and think it through. Look at the time sequence.
37818
Well-Known Member
Present what is true and why.
Luke 22:19-21 teaches it was after the supper.
. . . μετα το δειπνησαι . . .
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
READ THE OP!!!! Good grief.
37818
Well-Known Member
Not tonight.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Frustrating that you keep commenting and have not even read the OP which answers all of your questions and arguments.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
And my point, is the correct reading cannot be that supper was already over. That doesn't make sense culturally and it doesn't make sense textually. So if you read the commentaries you know that the correct understanding is either After supper was served or during supper etc.
37818
Well-Known Member
I know you do not understand fully my view on this.
Here is a question I need to hear your answer on. Where in the chronology ot the evens of Matthew, Mark and Luke do you place Jesus doing that foot washing?
That's only true if you believe in the Reformed interpretation of the gospel. I do not and therefore I believe that Jesus died for everyone. Of course to be saved a person must accept Him as their Lord and Savior AND follow Him.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
So you argue that everyone is part of the sheep fold?