Judge rules that the U.S. Pledge of Alligiance is Unconsitutional

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Grimlock Prime:
Another victory for Athiests and liberals against the Bible.

How is this a victory against the Bible?
Where does the Bible EVER suggest that Christians pledge their allegiance to anything but God? Where does it say that if such a pledge exist it must mention Him? Our constitution doesn't mention Him. Is that a victory against the Bible?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by C4K:
How is this a victory against the Bible?

You bring up a good point.

The use of the phrase "under God" in the pledge is a primarily patriotic reference, not a primarily religious reference. If it were a primarily religious reference, then it should be removed from the pledge.

 

[buckster75]

don't you feel like it was put in the pledge to show we are a notion that fears, honors and reveres God?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Possibly, but does America today fear, honour, and revere God when we allow the murder of millions of innocent children, plague the world with our pornography, and wink at homosexuality?

Lets start acting like we are under Him, then consider it being a part of our pledge.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by buckster75:
don't you feel like it was put in the pledge to show we are a notion that fears, honors and reveres God?

Actually, the phrase was put there to stem the issue of communism, nothing more. Just like the phrase "In God We Trust" was put on our money to replace the backing of money with gold and silver.

Originally posted by C4K:
... does America today fear, honour, and revere God when we allow the murder of millions of innocent children, plague the world with our pornography, and wink at homosexuality?

No more or less than when we engaged in owning and trafficking of human beings as property, or when we oppressed women, native Americans, and immigrants.

We are no better or worse off then we were then. But we were a great nation then, and a great nation now.

The truth is that we can only eat an elephant one bite at a time.

Lets start acting like we are under Him, then consider it being a part of our pledge.

Interesting comment. I don't rely on the pledge to dictate my faith. If I did, there would be a problem with my faith.

 

[buckster75]

I agree with you but don't think making a pledge that matches how we as a nation acts is going to make it better.

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

But saying "under God" in a pledge is not going to fix that. Our nation has forgotten God, tritely saying "under God" in a school pledge is not going to fix it. God's people need to heed the advice Moses gave to the people before entering Canaan - see Deuteronomy 4v1-8.

 

[buckster75]

That is exactly why it should stay. Taking it out will certainly not fix it. Just give those kids a day that the word God is not uttered by them. Could be that it would make even one child ask what it is about and find God for themselves. What is that worth?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Saying "under God" is only words. The vast majority of kids haven't a clue what they are even saying, it is rote memory.

Is not every nation under God?

If it was not importnant enough to be in our constitution, why should it be in a school house pledge?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by buckster75:
... don't think making a pledge that matches how we as a nation acts is going to make it better.

No. Neither the presence nor absence of a pledge, or the pledge's contents, will significantly impact how individuals of a nation will act.

 

[buckster75]

I remeber a little boy in first grade asking the teacher what indivisible meant. then he aked what God meant. guess what happened next.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

And you really think that is going to happen in a public school today. What if it did happen and the teacher was a Muslim?

 

[buckster75]

John, so you know it changed how that little boy acted, who happens to be an individual of a nation.
That's the point.
But now C4K give me some of the things that will be improved by removing it.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by buckster75:
John, so you know it changed how that little boy acted, who happens to be an individual of a nation.

That's irrelevant, however. If the phrase "under God" is primarily religious in nature, then it should go. If, however, it is primarily patriotic in nature (which is the case), then it can, and imo should, stay.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

My point is not that anything will be improved by its removal. It most cases it forces children to repeat something they really don't believe at all. It makes it sound like the US is somehow unique in being under God. All nations are under God, not just ours. We don't act like we are under His leadership. Which God is it talking about? May it not refer to Allah for the Muslim? If a child is a Satanist is he saying that he lives in one nation under Satan in his little mind? What happens in my scenario aboved is a child from a Christian home asks a Muslim teacher, "Which God is the country under?"

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

We Christians have abrogated our responsibility to be salt and light. In our rush for comfort and ease we have travalled right along with the world in it rush for material gain. We vote for politicians who agree that it is okay to kill a few children, as long as there is a good reason.

Where do we draw the line on a really important battle? Over two words, added to a pledge 50 years ago, that belie the reality of our national state of being.

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
... don't think making a pledge that matches how we as a nation acts is going to make it better.

No. Neither the presence nor absence of a pledge, or the pledge's contents, will significantly impact how individuals of a nation will act. </font>[/QUOTE]John how is it irrelavant? it is a direct response disproving what YOU said.

 

[buckster75]

Acknowlidging that we are one of those nations never made me think "the US is somehow unique in being under God."

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Once again - what happens if a child, as a result of a the pledge, asks a Muslim teacher, "What is God?"

 

[buckster75]

you know those who drew up the Constitution were required by the states they came from to be men of faith don't you? don't answer that!

ok so this is going no where. let's give some answers to the problem.