judging others

Only God knows if a person is saved or not. The rest of us can only guess. But should we guess? If a person does not display the fruits of the spirit, should we take it upon ourselves to assume that they must not be saved? Or should we be more sesitive to their needs?

I have found that people who display grounded faith tend to not "judge" others. They tend to be a more quiet, spirit lead, prayerful person. They say little, they condemn not at all. They pray for those who are lost, and speak with love and humility to everyone. The people who seem to bare the most fruit, seem to be the ones who listen more than they talk, and pray more then they critisize. This to me is Christ likeness. Is it possible to display Christ likeness and not be saved? I cannot absolutely tell you, but it seems to be contrary to what I have seen.

Just my observation.

 

"dangerous doctrine"..

like accepting Gods unconditional love for self,

but at the same moment, thinking that its ok to judge others based on mans carnal "interpretation" of Gods Love for others.

...like mixing carnal laws that one finds understandable and agreeable to self and their reconstituted understanding of Gods acceptance of all, through forgiveness, mercy, and grace.

as I have been hearing for a while..not too many people will be forgiven by Men (within the hallowed halls of Religion) using those doctrines.

what does God say about that ...
"Many Called, Few Chosen"

 

Proverbs 12:1 NAS Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

Proverbs 9:7-9 NAS He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you, Reprove a wise man, and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser, Teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning.

II Corinthians 13:10 NAS For this reason I am writing these things while absent, in order that when present I may not use severity, in accordance with the authority with the Lord gave me, for building up and not for tearing down.

Ephesians 5:8-16 in brief walk in the light, be acceptable to God and expose the darkness.

Matthew 18:15-20 refers on how to correct a brother of sin.

Here are many Scriptural examples that state that we are to make sure others are informed of the dangers of their actions. No we do not condemn people because we do not have that power, only God does, but He has instructed us to help others to know right from wrong. I dare to say any of you out there who are waving the "judge not" banner tell your kids, what is appropriate behavior and what is not allowable. If you do correct them, then you are a hypocrite, you should let them do whatever they want, otherwise you are judging them. I would hope you do tell them what is right or wrong. I also hope you realise that it is right for us to loving advise or guide others toward righteousness.

edited Bible translation title

[ February 03, 2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: FearNot ]

 

Ive often understood that the Gospels were the Good news with the added inclusion of mercy...until our last breath of life.
To condemn someone as if they cannot change their fate is no good news. no one should think they have the right to take that possibility away from another in need. to take away that very message away from anyone capable of receiving mercy.

interesting point is ..we are the messenger.

We are just one way in which God communicates his mercy to others..why should we offer them a judgemental attutide, when mercy is the answer.

Jesus did indeed bring a sword...one in which can divide families. and at time we do compromise with carnal answers to family disputes..but in no case are we to force an outsider...a believers choice to fit our mold.

Like a wife..she is part of her husband..they are one..what spiritual relationship is transpiring when you allow another man to "Tell her what to choose" or "to allow another to "judge her in her choices"
..its downright Wrong....Right?

My own thoghts about this is, that judging others is only a part of a greater problem of believers..

The real Problem is based on comprehending the character of God...

what part of "Unconditional Love" includes judging others..Our desires are to "give ourselves away" because of our very nature. The Nature which is of God himself..
But I see Believers with Judgemental attitudes first..and then confusion follows..

How do we disassociate ourselves with the judgment calls we make while we hear God Commanding us to love our enemies.?..

the two dont mix

 

...liberalism is serious error which doesn't see the biblical truth such as abortion being a horrid sin or homosexuality as an abomination.

Homosexuality and abortion are not matters of doctrine. They are indeed serious issues, but they are not doctrine. Jesus being the Son of God, the Virgin birth, the ressurrection, the Ten COmmandments, those are matters of doctrine.

 

God loved us enough to provide us with Scfripture to guide our lives. Jesus came to provide us the witness of propper behavior and to die for us. If ones behavior does not matter enough for them to be corrected, why would God go to so much trouble to teach us what is right and what is wrong. If we are not supposed to try to model Jesus' life, He could have just came, said here is mercy and be crucified. We are instructed to not behave as unbelievers Prov. 3:31-35. Scripture gives us example after example of correction, yet some of you just seem to care. What is the problem? Do you have personal issues you don't want to confront? Is Scripture not enough for you to believe we are to correct? Do you just not care enough about your brothers and sisters to help them deal with sin.

We are to love one another. We need to love others enough to tell them when they are wrong. Scripture shows us that. Mathew 7 refers to fairness in judging, not telling us to not judge, just that the way we judge we too will be judged. If we judge out of hate or spite, then we reap that judgement. If we judge in love, we will be judged with love, providing we are believers. We do not condemn, only God has that power.

If you read all of Matthew 7 it is obvious. Too many people stop at verse 2. Verse 5 clearly states after you rid yourself of your sin, you will be able to aid others. If you can not use Scripture correctly for your arguement, you should not use it. As IIPeter 3:14-18 shows us, distorting Scripture leads to distruction and we are to increase in our knowledge continually.

 

Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

If God wants you to judge someone..He will deliver them into your hands...

I pray that you have the power to fully forgive them unconditionally despite the results that you end up with..

mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged...

 

People who think they have the backing of the Lord to hurt others, under the misguided justification that it doesn't matter how they say it if it is "true", are the reason why so many people decide that they want to run as far and as fast away from all things christian as they can.

I'll answer your questions: Yes, Yes, Yes, and I do, although I don't think being right is a justification for being offensive.

 

Me2,
You must be kidding, first of all you took Matthew 7:1 OUT OF CONTEXT. Had you kept readin as I stated in the post right above yours, you would know that, or you just don't care that you took it out of context hense twisting and distorting Scripture to YOUR desire.

Secondly, Matthew 18:21-35 you also have attempted to take to a point to which it was not intended. It is about FORGIVING one who sinned against YOU. Actually if you examine the kings example, he forgive someone of their sin, when he found out that the man he forgave would not forgive another person of the same sin, the king punished him. So actually your attempt of arguing against judgement works against you. The king CORRECTED the man he originally forgave.

Maybe if the original debtor had a good Christian friend tell him throwing the second man in jail was a bad idea and wrong, he would not have been sent to the torturer.

In other words, thanks for providing another example why we need to judge.

 

If your enact debt towards others by judging them..

You prove to the world that you do not hold to the standards of God, in that sin has been paid for by another,
or the very nature of Jesus, that He desires mercy and not sacrifice.

Just what sin do you not forgive another for ?
and when is it your decision to withold mercy ?

And by the way..forgiving has everything to do with judging another.

isnt that what jesus did..judge the world...
He forgave it.

and the context in mat 7..is to stop judging
or face the consequences....

(If) you believe in judging others..you too live under the law...how many sins does it take to deserve punishment...I know..one..would that be just living in this body of flesh, being a sin..that means Any kind of law written on this planet while living in this flesh will stop me from being a sinner. PERIOD.

theres no manmade law I can follow...

If I judge others of breaking THE LAW..
I accuse myself as being a lawbreaker in the same sinful breath.

the only way I can stop sinning every second of every day is to die...

so if your going to start judging..
start with yourself...or are you dead ?

oh by the way..just what is the will of the father in mat 7:21..is it unconditionally love ?.

and is that why Jesus doesnt recognize the people in 7:23.. there too busy judging others and not forgiving them.

[ February 05, 2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

Me2,
I challenge you to go to my past posts and find one time where I said that one has to have a perfect sinless life, or that I said anything refering that without mercy we are not forgiven, or that we are not to be forgiving. I simply showed you that your interpreting Scripture for what you want it to say.

We are to love one another, I said that before. And we are to be forgiving, I believe I said that before.

You just don't get that if we allow someone to just continue in sin, then we do them a misjustice. I will not stand by and watch a friend allow crack to rule their life and just say "oh I won't judge you" Drug use is a sin, I will tell my friend that they should not be doing that to their body. You may not love people as much as you think if you will let them freely walk themselves into the gates of hell without trying to stop them. I atleast know all my friends know how they can get to heaven and how they won't. They may not accept Christ, but they know how. If you are not a believer, you will get NO MERCY.

So I tell you what, and this may be rude, but oh well. You will be held accountable for your fruits, by your fruits you will be known. That is Scriptural, along with you will reap what you sow. If people do not accept Christ 100% and they hold a pet sin of somekind and don't surrender it to God, they are not on the narrow road, they are on the broad road to doom. I will not be standing idlely by smiling and waving at them on their way. NO WAY. I love people enough to use the Matthew 18 approach with people. I will not open the gates to hell for people to avoid telling them the TRUTH. God is love and He is truth, telling someone who is in danger of being judged by Christ need to know the truth so they can avoid hell.

 

Fearnot,
As Christians we "by faith" agree that we are dead to the carnal flesh. We live by faith. We are "dead to self" and "alive to christ".

so how about straining to say..

"This is my opinion"..or
"This is what I would do"..

we call that..witnessing..or just being yourself.

in 1 John we are told to discern the spirit.
we are to try the spirit...to see whether their of God ...or not...but we're not to judge man.

and If a brother or sister relys on your opinion..Great..

But sayiong "Thou Shalt not" sounds funny,
doesnt It ?

Jesus says if thats what your hearing.
well, keep listening..thats what the laws all about..

The Laws Job is to kill every shred of will power of the flesh that fights against Gods eternal purposes. It will Kill You...Thats its design.
and who is the accusor ?
Satan Uses the Law against Us. Any Law.

If we are to admit to dying to self..that would means that the law has conquered over us..
it killed us.
now we are dead to the law and we cant live under its power any longer.

Now we can truly see why Jesus Christ is Lord.

Over sin..
Over death..
Over the curse...of the Law.

and by the way...alls forgiven

Me2

[ February 05, 2003, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

Me2,
Jesus changed a lot of things when He died for us. The sacrificial law was done away with. But the moral law was not. Jesus can conquer our sin IF we are true believers. If a person is in continual sin like fornication, homosexuality, drunkaness etc. there is a good chance they have not fully surrendered their life and are at risk of eternal death. As I have shown much biblical support to the fact that believers are to behave in a way honorable to God. If one doesn't, then they need someone to correct them, per the Matthew 18 technique. These would not have been provided to us if we were not intended to follow through with them.

Also we are instructed to witness to others. Is it not ackowledgement that a muslim or pagan is not a believer, and not a Christian judging someone?

I and everyone else do need to judge if someone or a behavior is wrong and lovingly correct them. But we do not condemn them. We need to tell people the result of living a life of sin without Christ.

None of us are perfect. I have corected friends before, and I have friends correct me, and I was glad they did. We commonly make excuses for our behavior and need a loving person to tell us we are wrong. That is why parents are so important to the life of a child. I see many weak parents today, along with that are a lot of poorly behaved disrespectful children who do not know right from wrong.

God provided us with absolutes and a guideline for behavior in Scripture, and that is what the world needs to acknowledge. If not, then we will get closer and closer to the day of judgement. I don't have anything to fear from that day, but millions of others do. We need to use the time we have to lovingly encourage behavior honorable to God and more importantly for people to accept Christ out of need for salvation.

 

Food for thought....

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying,God be merciful to me a sinner.

Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

false prophets are those who mix law and grace together..you cannot serve God and mammon..mammon being power of the flesh.

Wouldnt you agree that if rebuke is necesasary..it is the lord prompting one to speak ?
and of course..hopefully it would be given in brotherly love.

Me2

 

So what exactly is the point of your passage? I have not once claimed to be sinless, I have said I am not perfect and that I am a sinner, if this was an attempt to try to say i am self righteous, then it is a poorly supportable attempt. I know I have Jesus, and I know that those who are not born again do not. There is nothing of any simblance between me and the parable if that is what you are trying to say. If that is what you are insinuating, then you have used Scripture incorrectly yet again.

Instead of trying to attack me, why don't you try to dispte ALL of the Scripture I have provided and take your arguements up with God.

 

Fearnot,
It was just a parable...it was not posted as any offense. It was a reference to forgiveness and judgement.

my point if there was one..is that,

God doesnt need our help, to judge his children.

His Children know if they are being offensive to
God and others.

Me2

 

If that were true, why are we provided chapters like Matthew 18. God doesn't need our help for anything, but we are to help each other stay on the narrow road.

 

Fearnot,
Newly born again christians are not guaranteed upon adoption that their flesh will not attempt to overrule their spirit.
Yet The lord through the elders of the churches rules over the flock in brotherly Love.

Overseeing all of the family of God that none harm each other.

most judging and rebuking within the family is designed to keep believers who have fallen away and allowed their flesh to overcome them...to not harm the rest of the believers within the church. Yet after a time..after repenting they are allowed to return back into the fold.

Ive found some others statement that apply also..
Like a copy of the beatitudes in Luke with these verses...

Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Are these statement directed towards newly born again believers or elders ? I say both, yet This sounds more like an admonition to the unlearned.

Such as if the elders would be rebuking..It would be under the guidance of the Lord.

My concern is that any new christian could twist this verses to allow themselves to enter into the lives of others...uninvited.

and also allow "other" children that have refused to accept Jesus as their Lord..their flesh soon turns their attention away from hearing the Spirit and their understanding is darkened. they could then use these verses to twist the truth and mercy of God into something that requires following various lists of rules in their lives and the lives of all others around them. and to judge others who do not live by their rules.

By simply saying "look at me" "when you see me, you see christ"..or as the bible states.
"Lo, here is Christ"..(within me) with all of his rules and their hypocricies and their heavy bonds.(mat 24:23)

or yet another found in James.

Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

keeping in mind..these are statement are primarily being addressed to those who has not completely died to their flesh.

children..both obedient, and disobedient.

while young men and fathers should know better.

So...Im not advocating the non involvement of using rules in our present day churches as they are require to keep order.

I look more at bewaring the misuses of rules and the intrusive nature of unqualified individuals.

Me2