Judgment of God in Dan 7 and Romans 2

[vooks]

BobRyan,
Why are you contradicting your INFALLIBLE interpreter of INFALLIBLE scriptures?

You claim Reveltion 20 and Daniel 7 are different events whereas your godess reckons they are the 'same scene'
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2227297&postcount=79

Let's appeal to the INFALLIBLE interpreter , Spirit of Prophecy

The books of record in heaven, in which the names and the deeds of men are registered, are to determine the decisions of the judgment. Says the prophet Daniel: "The judgment was set, and the books were opened." The revelator, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.

Great Controversy page 481

The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people".

Adventist Review, June 3. 1971, p, 6. The Source of Final Appeal, By Roderick S. Owen.

And a screenshot for anyone too lazy to click this link

 

[BobRyan]

As it turns out - Dan 7 is not "paganism".

Nor is Dan 8.

Nor is Dan 9.

Nor is Romans 2,

Nor is Revelation 14:6-7

I am leading out in a Bible study class this Wednesday (tomorrow) and also on Sabbath June 27 and the topic is the Judgment in Dan 7 and Romans 2 -- as the Thief in the Night experience talked about in the New Testament.

So I invite the Bible students here to add any Bible tips they may have on the "details".- in case I need to add something here.

Here are two of the texts I am looking at.

[FONT=&quot]In the Bible we do find Daniel 7 and Romans 2.

1. Books are opened.
2. Court sits and many many beings are there - not just God.
3. The Father is presiding - And Christ comes to the Court room - Judgment once it is setup.
4. Once that Judgment is ended - and judgment passes in favor of the saints -- the persecution of the saints ends
5. And we have the second coming.


The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7

22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]----------------------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And of course Romans 2 describes the process that they use in that "Gospel judgment" future to the days of Paul.

2 Cor 5:10 "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ".


Romans 2
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my GOSPEL, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.[/COLOR]

And this Romans 2 Gospel solution includes the New Covenant promise where the Law of God is written on the heart in Romans 2 and the believer is circumcised in HEART - by the Holy Spirit.

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.[/FONT]

In the dark ages the Catholic response to inconvenient bible texts was "Bible avoidance" in the form of "emotionalism" - ad hominem and you-name-it.

There are some here willing to give all of that up and go for the Bible "instead".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[vooks]

As it turns out - Dan 7 is not "paganism".

Nor is Dan 8.

Nor is Dan 9.

Nor is Romans 2,

Nor is Revelation 14:6-7



In the dark ages the Catholic response to inconvenient bible texts was "Bible avoidance" in the form of "emotionalism" - ad hominem and you-name-it.

There are some here willing to give all of that up and go for the Bible "instead".

in Christ,

Bob

This is not Catholicism but your own Pope

The books of record in heaven, in which the names and the deeds of men are registered, are to determine the decisions of the judgment. Says the prophet Daniel: "The judgment was set, and the books were opened." The revelator, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.

Great Controversy, Page 481, Godess White

 

[BobRyan]

this post apparently has wayyyy too much Bible for vooks -- still.

Some refer to Bible teaching as "Doctrine of Devils" - but should all Christians follow that example?

Hopefully not.

No not even in the case of God's teaching regarding the final resolution of Sin in the Atonement Model as HE defines it in Lev 16. (A shock for some apparently)

The Bible says -

Lev 16
15 “When he slaughters the male goat for the people’s sin offering and brings its blood inside the veil, he must do the same with its blood as he did with the bull’s blood: he is to sprinkle it against the mercy seat and in front of it. 16 He will purify the most holy place in this way for all their sins because of the Israelites’ impurities and rebellious acts. He will do the same for the tent of meeting that remains among them, because it is surrounded by their impurities. 17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the most holy place until he leaves after he has made atonement for himself, his household, and the whole assembly of Israel. 18 Then he will go out to the altar that is before the Lord and make atonement for it. He is to take some of the bull’s blood and some of the goat’s blood and put it on the horns on all sides of the altar. ...


20 “When he has finished purifying the most holy place, the tent of meeting, and the altar, he is to present the live male goat. 21 Aaron will lay both his hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the Israelites’ wrongdoings and rebellious acts—all their sins. He is to put them on the goat’s head and send it away into the wilderness by the man appointed for the task. 22 The goat will carry on it all their wrongdoings into a desolate land, and he will release it there.
.
29 “This is to be a permanent statute for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month you are to practice self-denial and do no work, both the native and the foreigner who resides among you. 30 Atonement will be made for you on this day to cleanse you, and you will be clean from all your sins before the Lord. 31 It is a Sabbath of complete rest for you, and you must practice self-denial; it is a permanent statute. 32 The priest who is anointed and ordained to serve as high priest in place of his father will make atonement. He will put on the linen garments, the holy garments, 33 and purify the most holy place. He will purify the tent of meeting and the altar and will make atonement for the priests and all the people of the assembly. 34 This is to be a permanent statute for you, to make atonement for the Israelites once a year because of all their sins.” And all this was done as the Lord commanded Moses.

Thus once a year "for ALL their sins" - the Day of Atonement doctrine of "GOD".

Those who would call this resolution for "ALL their sins" - doctrine of "Atonement" - a "doctrine of devils" need to re-think the service that they do - and to whom they do it.

===============================

R.C. Sproul knows about the "Accumulated sin" teaching in the Bible regarding God's "Day of Atonement" doctrine.



BTW - this is why the Arminian model works - because the full scope of Atonement in Lev 16 includes BOTH the work of Christ as the LAMB of God - the sin offering -- AND ALSO the work of Christ in Heb 8:1 as High Priest as dictated in Lev 16.

Those who prefer "Vooks" to the Bible are welcome to that sort of thing --

I will be sticking with the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[vooks]

this post apparently has wayyyy too much Bible for vooks -- still.





Those who prefer "Vooks" to the Bible are welcome to that sort of thing --

I will be sticking with the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

What was Pope White sticking with

The books of record in heaven, in which the names and the deeds of men are registered, are to determine the decisions of the judgment. Says the prophet Daniel: "The judgment was set, and the books were opened." The revelator, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.

nGreat Controversy, Pope Ellen White, page 481

 

[BobRyan]

Vooks... less "Bible avoidance please" ---

==============================================

Originally Posted by BobRyan
I am leading out in a Bible study class this Wednesday (tomorrow) and also on Sabbath June 27 and the topic is the Judgment in Dan 7 and Romans 2 -- as the Thief in the Night experience talked about in the New Testament.

So I invite the Bible students here to add any Bible tips they may have on the "details".- in case I need to add something here.

Here are two of the texts I am looking at.

[FONT=&quot]In the Bible we do find Daniel 7 and Romans 2.

1. Books are opened.
2. Court sits and many many beings are there - not just God.
3. The Father is presiding - And Christ comes to the Court room - Judgment once it is setup.
4. Once that Judgment is ended - and judgment passes in favor of the saints -- the persecution of the saints ends
5. And we have the second coming.


The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7

22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]----------------------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And of course Romans 2 describes the process that they use in that "Gospel judgment" future to the days of Paul.

2 Cor 5:10 "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ".


Romans 2
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my GOSPEL, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.[/COLOR]

And this Romans 2 Gospel solution includes the New Covenant promise where the Law of God is written on the heart in Romans 2 and the believer is circumcised in HEART - by the Holy Spirit.

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[vooks]

Vooks... less "Bible avoidance please" ---

==============================================

[/FONT]
[/FONT]

The revelator, describing the same scene,

Great Controversy , page 481

BobRyan, please cease and desist from contradicting the inspired and infallible interpreter of NT and OT. Where are your manners son!

 

[BobRyan]

Some on this thread will notice that "in the Bible" we have this --

Originally Posted by BobRyan
I am leading out in a Bible study class this Wednesday (tomorrow) and also on Sabbath June 27 and the topic is the Judgment in Dan 7 and Romans 2 -- as the Thief in the Night experience talked about in the New Testament.

So I invite the Bible students here to add any Bible tips they may have on the "details".- in case I need to add something here.

Here are two of the texts I am looking at.

[FONT=&quot]In the Bible we do find Daniel 7 and Romans 2.

1. Books are opened.
2. Court sits and many many beings are there - not just God.
3. The Father is presiding - And Christ comes to the Court room - Judgment once it is setup.
4. Once that Judgment is ended - and judgment passes in favor of the saints -- the persecution of the saints ends
5. And we have the second coming.


The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7

22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]----------------------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And of course Romans 2 describes the process that they use in that "Gospel judgment" future to the days of Paul.

2 Cor 5:10 "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ".


Romans 2
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my GOSPEL, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.[/COLOR]

And this Romans 2 Gospel solution includes the New Covenant promise where the Law of God is written on the heart in Romans 2 and the believer is circumcised in HEART - by the Holy Spirit.

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.[/FONT]

that is nothing at all like the little vooks-curve-balls we keep seeing as the "response to scripture".

In that Bible example above we see the judgment that happens just before the 2nd coming.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Vooks of course will reject every effort to focus on the Bible for doctrine - and will turn instead to "just Ellen White" in his posts... for that tiny group that thinks like Vooks about ignoring the Bible with every post --who will only discuss the visions that God gave to Ellen White.. well for that tiny group here .... we have.

“I beheld,” says the prophet Daniel, “till thrones were placed, and One that was Ancient of Days did sit: His raiment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like pure wool; His throne was fiery flames, and the wheels thereof burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.” Daniel 7:9, 10, R.V.{GC 479.1}

Thus was presented to the prophet’s vision the great and solemn day when the characters and the lives of men should pass in review before the Judge of all the earth, and to every man should be rendered “according to his works.” The Ancient of Days is God the Father. Says the psalmist: “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God.” Psalm 90:2. It is He, the source of all being, and the fountain of all law, that is to preside in the judgment. And holy angels as ministers and witnesses, in number “ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,” attend this great tribunal.{GC 479.2}

“And, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away.” Daniel 7:13, 14. The coming of Christ here described is not His second coming to the earth. He comes to the Ancient of Days in heaven to receive dominion and glory and a kingdom, which will be given Him at the close of His work as a mediator. It is this coming, and not His second advent to the earth, that was foretold in prophecy to take place at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844. Attended by heavenly angels, our great High Priest enters the holy of holies and there appears in the presence of God to engage in the last acts of His ministration in behalf of man—to perform the work of investigative judgment and to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits. {GC 479.3}


...

The same spirit that prompted rebellion in heaven still inspires rebellion on earth. Satan has continued with men the same policy which he pursued with the angels. His spirit now reigns in the children of disobedience. Like him they seek to break down the restraints of the law of God and promise men liberty through transgression of its precepts. Reproof of sin still arouses the spirit of hatred and resistance. When God’s messages of warning are brought home to the conscience, Satan leads men to justify themselves and to seek the sympathy of others in their course of sin. Instead of correcting their errors, they excite indignation against the reprover, as if he were the sole cause of difficulty. From the days of righteous Abel to our own time such is the spirit which has been displayed toward those who dare to condemn sin

 

[vooks]

Vooks of course will reject every effort to focus on the Bible for doctrine - and will turn instead to "just Ellen White" in his posts... for that tiny group that thinks like Vooks about ignoring the Bible with every post --who will only discuss the visions that God gave to Ellen White.. well for that tiny group here .... we have.

Hi BobRyan,
Could you kindly interprete this infallible interpreter's work for me

The revelator, describing the same scene,

Great Controversy, Pope Ellen White, page 481

When BobRyan claims NOTHING Pope White has ever taught that is unbiblical and evidence is adduced, he insists we should stick to scriptures. Which means the INFALLIBLE and INSPIRED Pope White mixed up Daniel's pre-advent judgement and Revelation 20:12's judgement.

So either White is right and her claims of inerrant interpretation sustained, or she is wrong like her adherent BobRyan claims and in which case she is neither inspired nor infallible.

Next question is, if she is not infallible, why does BobRyan worship her garbage no christen it as 'Spirit of Prophecy'?

 

[BobRyan]

So then pope-vooks has spoken in his usual Bible-vacuous style --- shall we refocus on "the Bible" ??

I say "lets do!".

========================================

Originally Posted by BobRyan
I am leading out in a Bible study class this Wednesday (tomorrow) and also on Sabbath June 27 and the topic is the Judgment in Dan 7 and Romans 2 -- as the Thief in the Night experience talked about in the New Testament.

So I invite the Bible students here to add any Bible tips they may have on the "details".- in case I need to add something here.

Here are two of the texts I am looking at.

[FONT=&quot]In the Bible we do find Daniel 7 and Romans 2.

1. Books are opened.
2. Court sits and many many beings are there - not just God.
3. The Father is presiding - And Christ comes to the Court room - Judgment once it is setup.
4. Once that Judgment is ended - and judgment passes in favor of the saints -- the persecution of the saints ends
5. And we have the second coming.


The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7

22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]----------------------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And of course Romans 2 describes the process that they use in that "Gospel judgment" future to the days of Paul.

2 Cor 5:10 "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ".


Romans 2
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my GOSPEL, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.[/COLOR]

And this Romans 2 Gospel solution includes the New Covenant promise where the Law of God is written on the heart in Romans 2 and the believer is circumcised in HEART - by the Holy Spirit.

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.[/FONT]

 

[vooks]

So then pope-vooks has spoken in his usual Bible-vacuous style --- shall we refocus on "the Bible" ??

I say "lets do!".

========================================

Originally Posted by BobRyan
I am leading out in a Bible study class this Wednesday (tomorrow) and also on Sabbath June 27 and the topic is the Judgment in Dan 7 and Romans 2 -- as the Thief in the Night experience talked about in the New Testament.

So I invite the Bible students here to add any Bible tips they may have on the "details".- in case I need to add something here.

Here are two of the texts I am looking at.

[FONT=&quot]In the Bible we do find Daniel 7 and Romans 2.

1. Books are opened.
2. Court sits and many many beings are there - not just God.
3. The Father is presiding - And Christ comes to the Court room - Judgment once it is setup.
4. Once that Judgment is ended - and judgment passes in favor of the saints -- the persecution of the saints ends
5. And we have the second coming.


The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7

22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]----------------------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And of course Romans 2 describes the process that they use in that "Gospel judgment" future to the days of Paul.

2 Cor 5:10 "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ".


Romans 2
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my GOSPEL, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.[/COLOR]

And this Romans 2 Gospel solution includes the New Covenant promise where the Law of God is written on the heart in Romans 2 and the believer is circumcised in HEART - by the Holy Spirit.

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.[/FONT]

Preach to your illiterate godess. She thinks Daniel 7 and Revelation 20 are describing the SAME SCENE.

 

[BobRyan]

your disdain in response to that list of texts is the "fruits" that Matt 7 speaks of ....

None need be deceived.

As I pointed out - Dan 7 and Romans 2 are speaking of the same judgment.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[vooks]

your disdain in response to that list of texts is the "fruits" that Matt 7 speaks of ....

None need be deceived.

As I pointed out - Dan 7 and Romans 2 are speaking of the same judgment.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan,
Am just quoting Spirit of Prophecy, you should throw tantrums over the angels/gods which revealed this garbage to your goddess.
The scriptures
Daniel 7:10 (KJV)
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened

Revelation 20:12 (KJV)
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works

Let's now consult the infallible interpreter of both NT and OT;

The books of record in heaven, in which the names and the deeds of men are registered, are to determine the decisions of the judgment. Says the prophet Daniel: ‘The judgment was set and the books were opened’ [Dan. 7:10]. The Revelator, describing the same scene, adds: ‘Another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged out of those things, which were written in the books, according to their works.’ Revelation 20:12.

Great Controversy, Pope Ellen White, page 480-481

According to EGW, the events described in Daniel 7:10 and Revelation 20:2 are one and the same.

BobRyan vigorously insists they are not and proceeds to relate Daniel 7 with Romans. This is grossly irrelevant because nobody asked him.

We have Ellen White equating Daniel's 'pre-advent' judgement with John's 'post-advent' judgement. In short, Pope Ellen White is CONTRADICTING herself!

Were this a minor historical inaccuracy, or a grammar issue, she can be excused, but this is a foundational doctrine of Investigative Judgement.

Let's watch how BobRyan wriggles out of this without charging White with falsehood,confusion and stupidity