Just some food for thought.

Enoch, do you even understand what I wrote?

What do you consider to be "poisonous" in it?

A bit of both, no doubt.

I find war and war-mongering seriously disturbing, yes.

 

Daisy do you have any ties to Islam? I sense a biased view from you?

 

Yes, my husband's family. He's from Bangladesh.

As opposed to your own entirely neutral view? I am not pro-Islam but neither do I think that all Moslems should be exterminated. Does that make me biased in your eyes, Enoch?

 

Are you and your husband Christians?

 

Who wants this????? I have many Muslim friends; it’s the terrorists and their sympathizers I have a problem with.

 

Are you?

 

Seems to be some confusion over the term contractor here.

Not all contractors do construction work. Ever watch a movie about gangsters or the Mafia and hear the term "he had a contract out on him"? The reason is because a Boss or Don wanted someone dead and "contracted" the work out to a professional hit man, a contractor or sometimes known as a mechanic. Now when mob bosses talk of the need for a mechanics service it isn't because the brakes on their Caddie need fixing. It's because they want someone dead and are "putting out a contract" on that person.

Not all contractors in Iraq do construction work, some are in the business of being body guards, security specialists, and mercenaries. Now in the case of the four "civilian contractors" that were killed and mutilated in Iraq in March 2004, they were security specialists or mercenaries that were trained by Blackwater Securities. Notice the "Contractor Log In" button in the site?

They knowingly put themselves in harms way for money. Now, that doesn't make them bad people. That just means that they excepted the risks of being captured, tortured, mutilated, or killed in exchange for pay.

Iraqi civilians, men, women, and children that were not combatants and lost their lives or limbs because of war (collateral damage) probably didn't have the same choice over their own risk of being killed or maimed by a misguided bomb missle or bullet.

See Blackwater Article Here

To attack Daisy because she understands the difference between a mercenary and an innocent civilian is a bit over the top IMHO and I thought it was against BB rules to question anothers salvation.

 

Not really. The confusion was over "beheaded" contractors. Daisy thought it was justifiable to cut off the heads of contractors who were "hired guns", but the
contractors who were beheaded were not "hired guns" in any sense of the imagination. The confusion, if there was any, was all on her part.


But she also objects to their real job of rebuilding because they work for the evil invaders. So it's kind of OK to kill them, too. Especially since they were paid so well to risk their lives. No matter that a lot of them work 14 hours a day,7 days a week for a year to fulfill their contracts and be paid a hundred thousand dollars. That's less than 20 dollars an hour.

So, to Daisy, it's ok to kill 'em. Them making so much money and all.

So, there's not really any confusion at all.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but having just read the thread I don't see anywhere where Daisy said that being beheaded was a good thing, simply that she felt more for those that had little or no choice for being in the dangerous places (weter Arab or American) than for those who went there for the money.

The killing of any in any circumstances is bad, part of the evil of human nature, but also keeping yourself safe is part of your human responsibility .. so don't expose yourself to unnecessary risks.

Regards
Bob

 

If you missed anything, Bob, it's because you wanted to.

What she said was that they were

"the least innocent and the most appropriate target."

Do you agree with that statement?

 

I never had any doubt that you would. </font>[/QUOTE]Then why did you call me a liar? </font>[/QUOTE]Until you admitted you made a mistake, that's what you were doing.

 

Daisy if you're not a christian you're in the wrong forum, if you are why haven't you answered the question?

thankyou and God Bless

 

ASLANSPAL

You consider it over the top to rebuke a Christian for implying that men who were beheaded and ripped apart deserved to die because they happened to take jobs in a war zone?

And people say that ~I~ am too forgiving.

 

Bob,

The statement:
"Daisy writes:

The contractors who were decapitated were mercenaries, hired guns, killers. They were not electricians, plumbers or construction workers. Of any of the invaders, they seem to me the least innocent and the most appropriate target. "

Is what we are objecting to.

First - it isn't accurate.

Yes - I see the line about Blackwater, I don't see any proof the men worked for Blackwater.
I DO remember the news interviews with the families of these men - one woman talked, at great length, about how her husband had taken the job in Iraq because he was offered a lot of money to do rebuilding, and that even though it was dangerous, the money would help put his children through college.

So - maybe someone WAS beheaded that was a mercenary, but I haven't see it in the news yet. All I've seen are the people who ARE contractors and electricians and goodwill ambassadors.

 

I personally think the first step is gentle
admonishment to go to rebuke and pass the
gentle admonishment is passing up an important
step...and I think Daisy has covered her feelings
she choose to look at the other scale and give
it a fair reading...the mercenaries did not
deserve to die that way ...what bothers me is
these jobs should be our soldiers jobs and not
outsourced jobs to mercenaries or those who
want PC( security firms)...that pay high dollar
when at the time of the killings, our soldiers
were begging for armor and a bump in death pay.

Only God knows their true motivation perhaps
some really wanted to serve the Iraqi people and
a righteous cause but one thing is a fact they
signed on the dotted line for high dollars and
that of course brings into question their
motivation...but as a Christian no one deserved
to die the way they did it was a risk and it
ended in tragedy but imho the common G.I. gets
more honor from me but the mercenaries do receive
mercy from me as well.

My angle is let the Soldiers do the job and take
all the money we spend on high dollar security
firms and give it to the soldiers....in a nutshell.

DO NOT OUTSOURCE SECURITY FUNCTIONS TO SECURITY
FIRMS.

MOTIVES COULD BE DEEMED QUESTIONABLE

 

Aslanpal,

I know that two of the men beheaded were not hired guns or a mercenaries. I don't know about all of them, but I know two were not.

That said, even if some of the men killed were - that doesn't justify the way they died.

 

Over the top yeshua4me2...I personally discern
that she is, but it gets back to you and this
oak beam thing that is plugged into your eye
socket.



The good news for you is that you can actually
engage in the topic....find an article that
speaks of the mercenaries personal story and perhaps how they really wanted to do a good thing.

Perhaps find and article that deals with soldiers
pay compared to Blackwater security pay and
benefits and do a cost analysis.

but to blindly go after Daisys spirituality with
two big beams in your eyes because you deem
the messenger wrong...is of course wrong when
you actually have the resources to engage in the
discussion and debate.

I personally think they should fire Blackwater
and take all that money and give it to our
soldiers and special ops and let them conduct
security...treasure would be saved and honor would
be dully noted and unquestioned. imho

 

Aslanpal,

I don't like pointing at splinters when there are beams either - however - - - -

There has NEVER EVER in my life, since the day I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, been a time when someone asked, "Are you a Christian," that I did not stand up and say, "Yes."

And while I suppose Daisy was doing a sarcastic response - I think she SHOULD have stood up for Christ FIRST and THEN asked her question.

NEVER, EVER "avoid" a chance to declare Christ.

 

I believe there have been no beheadings of any security personnel who could be termed "hired guns". All have been civilian contract workers specifically forbidden to carry firearms (at least,in the case of the Americans)who were working in the reconstruction effort.

And they weren't being paid all that well. Every assembly line auto worker in America gets paid better. Plumbers, electricians, and carpenters all get paid better. The list is endless.

 

I have debated whether to add to this particular debate or to toss the comments of some of the respondents onto the garbage heap.

When I looked at Daisy's profile and when she dodged the question asking if she were a Christian, I could not remain silent. Our Lord tells us:

"Mat 7:14-21
(14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
(15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
(16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
(17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
(18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
(19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

I do not mean to imply that Daisy is not a Christian, only God can make that judgment. However, if she consistently makes statements like the ones she has made in this post, the I do have the right to judge her actions. Her comments do not exhibit Christian love (although she is not the only one in this forum who thinks debates are won by insults, anger, name calling, etc.)

I do not think all Muslims want to kill all Christians any more than I believe all Christians love their enemies. Evidence has shown however, that it is the Muslims who are continually torturing then murdering their captives, who practice suicide bombings, who deliberately target school buses full of those innocent civilians Daisy speaks of, who crash planes into buildings to kill as many as possible and then dance in the streets when watching videos of these events. What religion is it that preaches hate and death for those who do not believe their particular form of worship.

I can even understand why Daisy has a large degree of sympathy to that religion, but I cannot understand why she and others who, based on their comments, harbor such hate for this country, and show such disdain for the evidence shown to them responding with snide comments and arguments comparing humiliation to torture, and who take refuge in their supposed Christianity when challenged.

Perhaps when reading articles and internet websites all of us should determine what the hidden agenda of these sites is. Then we can make rational judgments about the comments that are provided.