Just What Part of ILLEGAL Do You Not Understand????

[righteousdude2]

And....(drum roll, please)

RD2, your bizarre diatribe is not worth the electrons used to display it. You make sweeping generalizations and broad brush fallacies, using words like "most" and "usually" with no evidence to back up such assertions. We already know what is in your heart. You reveal it all too often. And giant red type is the equivalent of shouting. Valid points don't need to be shouted. They stand on their own merit.

.......... your point is???????if you can read this mp, maybe you can put your mind in gear and porvide a valid point to counter my post.

 

[tinytim]

... we were a Christian nation, governed by the Bible and Christian laws. Most on this board argue that we are not founded upon Christian principles.

Agree.. And as Christians in this nation, we are to put our Heavenly Citizenship ABOVE our American Citizenship, and if someone needs help we are to help them in the name of Christ. WITHOUT questioning if they are Samaritans... er... I mean Hispanics!

See, people have never changed.. the good religious people of Jesus time didn't want the people across their border to the north.. .(Samaritans) to come in to their country.. and now, good religious people of the USA are justifying their actions of selfishness by vilifying a whole group of people... (Hispanics).. .without knowing specifics...

Reasons Christians give for not helping Hispanics....

They are taking OUR jobs...
They need to learn OUR language...
WE are paying for them...

See... it is all based on self-centerdness...
For some reason Americans believe that only WE have the right to freedom, and to Hell with the rest of the world. Well.. we will pay for our selfishness.
Mark my word, we will pay, and pay dear for not loving people just because they are not citizens of the USA.

 

[Revmitchell]

Agree.. And as Christians in this nation, we are to put our Heavenly Citizenship ABOVE our American Citizenship, and if someone needs help we are to help them in the name of Christ. WITHOUT questioning if they are Samaritans... er... I mean Hispanics!

See, people have never changed.. the good religious people of Jesus time didn't want the people across their border to the north.. .(Samaritans) to come in to their country.. and now, good religious people of the USA are justifying their actions of selfishness by vilifying a whole group of people... (Hispanics).. .without knowing specifics...

Reasons Christians give for not helping Hispanics....

They are taking OUR jobs...
They need to learn OUR language...
WE are paying for them...

See... it is all based on self-centerdness...
For some reason Americans believe that only WE have the right to freedom, and to Hell with the rest of the world. Well.. we will pay for our selfishness.
Mark my word, we will pay, and pay dear for not loving people just because they are not citizens of the USA.

This is absurd and beyond reality. The issue is not helping them. The issue is crossing the border illegally to by pass our laws. Come into the country legally and you get help. Lets not ignore our laws.

 

[Dragoon68]

Agree.. And as Christians in this nation, we are to put our Heavenly Citizenship ABOVE our American Citizenship, and if someone needs help we are to help them in the name of Christ. WITHOUT questioning if they are Samaritans... er... I mean Hispanics!

See, people have never changed.. the good religious people of Jesus time didn't want the people across their border to the north.. .(Samaritans) to come in to their country.. and now, good religious people of the USA are justifying their actions of selfishness by vilifying a whole group of people... (Hispanics).. .without knowing specifics...

Reasons Christians give for not helping Hispanics....

They are taking OUR jobs...
They need to learn OUR language...
WE are paying for them...

See... it is all based on self-centerdness...
For some reason Americans believe that only WE have the right to freedom, and to Hell with the rest of the world. Well.. we will pay for our selfishness.
Mark my word, we will pay, and pay dear for not loving people just because they are not citizens of the USA.

When will you be taking in your new borders? No, not the ones you invited or are paying you rent - the ones that just showed up and demanded a part of everything you have. Let me know how it works out for you.

 

[HankD]

I agree with Tim's basic principle.
The richest most afluent nation that has ever been has as a neighbor one of desparate poverty.
Doesn't seem right.

On the other hand our enemies who want to kill us can take opportunity to enter our nation because of our laxity.

No nation on earth will let a foreigner in without some sort of documentation.

Solution:
1) Modify our laws to allow for bona fide transient workers and provide them proper documentation.
2) Christians (actually, anyone) - go to a website such as worldvision and get onboard.

HankD

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Sorry to disagree with you but the law is rather black and white regarding the legal way to enter this country. Sneaking across the border, or cramming yourself inside of a truck or car, and hiding inside something to get across the border are not a part of that process. It doesn't matter who or what wants them here... there is still a legal way to do it.

As for any government official who promotes illegals to cross the border they should be deported as well as they obviously have no regard for this country. I would prefer criminal prosecution for them but I can't have everything.

As for your ridiculous notion about an illegal Mexican lawyer and such, it is just that... ridiculous. The jobs being taken are mostly on the lower end but still doable by those out of work already. I know way too many people who have done construction all their lives who cannot get a job because the crews are full of Hispanics who will work for half (but only give about half the quality of the US workers). Illegals destroyed the carpet industry of north Georgia (where I used to work for many years).

As long as there are legal ways to enter this country I will not ever support illegals. I am tired of my taxes paying for their stuff while I do without and pray that I don't get sick, or how I will be able to pay my mortgage, or how I will be able to afford groceries.

I agree people shouldn't enter into the country illegally. But this problem is more complicated than that because. 1) families have been crossboarder residents for many Generations. Since the founding of the boarder states. 2) Have been encouraged to have open boarder crossing until our country took on socialistic trends. 3) continue to be encouraged to cross openly into the country by US business leaders, and laws recognizing and turning blind eye to illicit boarder crossing. 4) Encouraged by US politicians using illegals to a) generate more taxable income while providing welfare payments of those taxes only to US citizens. b) to promote social agendas c) to purposely lower wage rates creating a greater gap between the wealthy and the poor. My opinion is that both parties are attempting to create a two class society of the very wealthy and the very poor(slave class). One uses socialism to attain it and make people reliant on government. The other uses capitalism to engender a mild facist system where the wealthy maintain their wealth and the poor are reliant on these business leaders. to the end that much like the coal companies in the late 1800's had employees contract their lives to live in coal towns owned by companies used company dollars to purchase company goods all the while the regular employee had very little rights. In both cases the middle class is done away with.

 

[billwald]

>The issue is crossing the border illegally to by pass our laws.

A "real" Christian would not pick and choose which laws he will obey and which laws should be enforced against other people.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

>The issue is crossing the border illegally to by pass our laws.

A "real" Christian would not pick and choose which laws he will obey and which laws should be enforced against other people.

There is a legal term call precedent. What has been the precedent established previoulsy by our country? See. It becomes convoluted.

 

[Cutter]

Mark my word, we will pay, and pay dear for not loving people just because they are not citizens of the USA.

See, this is the way liberals argue. They demonize the opposing view and vilify their opponent with broad assertions and sweeping generalizations.
Listen and learn RD2. If you are in favor of enforcing existing laws it is because you are a HATER! Get that, you just hate people. At least in the liberals eyes you do.

 

[Amy.G]

This is absurd and beyond reality. The issue is not helping them. The issue is crossing the border illegally to by pass our laws. Come into the country legally and you get help. Lets not ignore our laws.

I agree. I have no problem with people coming into our country as long as it is done legally. In my area, there are quite a few illegals. They've had several children, all of them born in our one and only hospital and NO charge. I am responsible to pay my medical bills or I am turned over to a collection agency. They are responsible for nothing. They drive without a license because they can't get one. They have no car insurance. Many are jailed for drunk driving and then released even though they are illegals! They expect the same rights and privileges as tax paying citizens, yet they pay NO taxes!
Yet some would call me unchristian for being angered by this.

God commands that we obey the laws of our country. Does He not also command the immigrants do the same thing?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I agree. I have no problem with people coming into our country as long as it is done legally. In my area, there are quite a few illegals. They've had several children, all of them born in our one and only hospital and NO charge. I am responsible to pay my medical bills or I am turned over to a collection agency. They are responsible for nothing. They drive without a license because they can't get one. They have no car insurance. Many are jailed for drunk driving and then released even though they are illegals! They expect the same rights and privileges as tax paying citizens, yet they pay NO taxes!
Yet some would call me unchristian for being angered by this.

God commands that we obey the laws of our country. Does He not also command the immigrants do the same thing?

Note my post #8

 

[tinytim]

See, this is the way liberals argue. They demonize the opposing view and vilify their opponent with broad assertions and sweeping generalizations.
Listen and learn RD2. If you are in favor of enforcing existing laws it is because you are a HATER! Get that, you just hate people. At least in the liberals eyes you do.

Cool your jets Cutter... This is one issue where I am only slightly liberal on.. ALL other issues I am as much a right wing fanatic as you..

Here is where I am coming from..

I have had leaders in churches in my area that have told me to my face that they will welcome with loving arms Hispanics that have the proper documents into their church... (talking about visiting.. not membership)...
But NO illegal is welcome to even come visit...

Now, I don't know about you, but when they told me that, I got mad.

For Jesus didn't say, go into all the world, and minister to only the citizens of the USA..

The following is the ending of an article I wrote for our Convention's newsletter (WV Baptist Magazine page 4) http://wvbc.ab.edu/WV Baptist/My Webs/Archives Revised/FEBRUARY-MARCH 2010.pdf

One day, each Christian will stand before Christ and
he may ask us why we didn’t minister to the people around us.
We will not be able to give the excuse, “They were not
American,” because Christ will look at us and say, “I didn’t just
die for Americans.” We will not be able to give the excuse,
“They didn’t speak our language,” because Christ may say,
“Why didn’t you learn their language so you could tell them
about me?” We will not be able to give the excuse, “They were
different from us,” because Christ commanded us to witness to
everyone, not just those like us. My prayer is that we will lose
these prejudices and be the children of God He has called us to
be.

I agree with my conservative friends.. we need to do something in order to protect our borders, or we will be facing the same fate the Native Americans faced when we stole their land.. .

Get to know some in the Hispanic community.. HELP them become legal!...
There are agencies out there that will help them. Many WANT to become legal. I know a couple that are going through citizenship classes.. the lady has already became a citizen, and the man, is working on his. These are 2 of the finest people I know, they came to America to avoid starvation, and while here met Jesus through our Hispanic ministries, and now are cleaning up their lives. I praise God they got to stay in America long enough for us to witness to them... because of this, they are now eternal family!.... (forgot to mention, they are a working family, and really contribute to the community.. Not all Hispanics are the way some on here are painting them with THEIR sweeping generalizations)

Some here, I am afraid, would have reported them to the feds before getting to know them and witnessing to them. If that would have happened, they could have been lost forever.

Also, some are considered Illegal although they came here legally, but their cards expired... BTW, when does your driver's license expire? Do you know without looking? Yeah, I bet most that just read that have to look to see. And it is that way with some that are considered "illegal".. they forgot to renew their documentation..

You see, it is way to simple to just shout, "Send em back"..
There are a lot of different variables...

Here is my solution...
Reinforce the borders..
Crack down on employers that are breaking the law by hiring them...
If a person is here illegally, decide case by case what to do.. If they are criminals, by all means ship em back.
BUT if they are hard working people, and are not breaking any other laws, then HELP them become citizens.... WE NEED MORE hard working people!.. .

If this is a form of Amnesty for some, so be it.
As for that, I would favor a 6 month amnesty period for All illegals to come forward to start their paper work.. After the 6 month period is up, and someone is found, then ship em back...

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Cool your jets Cutter... This is one issue where I am only slightly liberal on.. ALL other issues I am as much a right wing fanatic as you..

Here is where I am coming from..

I have had leaders in churches in my area that have told me to my face that they will welcome with loving arms Hispanics that have the proper documents into their church... (talking about visiting.. not membership)...
But NO illegal is welcome to even come visit...

Now, I don't know about you, but when they told me that, I got mad.

For Jesus didn't say, go into all the world, and minister to only the citizens of the USA..

The following is the ending of an article I wrote for our Convention's newsletter (WV Baptist Magazine page 4) http://wvbc.ab.edu/WV Baptist/My Webs/Archives Revised/FEBRUARY-MARCH 2010.pdf



I agree with my conservative friends.. we need to do something in order to protect our borders, or we will be facing the same fate the Native Americans faced when we stole their land.. .

Get to know some in the Hispanic community.. HELP them become legal!...
There are agencies out there that will help them. Many WANT to become legal. I know a couple that are going through citizenship classes.. the lady has already became a citizen, and the man, is working on his. These are 2 of the finest people I know, they came to America to avoid starvation, and while here met Jesus through our Hispanic ministries, and now are cleaning up their lives. I praise God they got to stay in America long enough for us to witness to them... because of this, they are now eternal family!.... (forgot to mention, they are a working family, and really contribute to the community.. Not all Hispanics are the way some on here are painting them with THEIR sweeping generalizations)

Some here, I am afraid, would have reported them to the feds before getting to know them and witnessing to them. If that would have happened, they could have been lost forever.

Also, some are considered Illegal although they came here legally, but their cards expired... BTW, when does your driver's license expire? Do you know without looking? Yeah, I bet most that just read that have to look to see. And it is that way with some that are considered "illegal".. they forgot to renew their documentation..

You see, it is way to simple to just shout, "Send em back"..
There are a lot of different variables...

Here is my solution...
Reinforce the borders..
Crack down on employers that are breaking the law by hiring them...
If a person is here illegally, decide case by case what to do.. If they are criminals, by all means ship em back.
BUT if they are hard working people, and are not breaking any other laws, then HELP them become citizens.... WE NEED MORE hard working people!.. .

If this is a form of Amnesty for some, so be it.
As for that, I would favor a 6 month amnesty period for All illegals to come forward to start their paper work.. After the 6 month period is up, and someone is found, then ship em back...

I'm in agreement with you tinytim.

 

[Cutter]

Here is where I am coming from..

I have had leaders in churches in my area that have told me to my face that they will welcome with loving arms Hispanics that have the proper documents into their church... (talking about visiting.. not membership)...
But NO illegal is welcome to even come visit...

Now, I don't know about you, but when they told me that, I got mad.

After your explanation of what you encountered in area churches I understand why you said what you did and thanks for the reply.

 

[Dragoon68]

... Get to know some in the Hispanic community.. HELP them become legal!...

That's completely unfair to those who follow the legal process for immigrant! They apply, meet the requirements, wait to be accepted, and when - only when - their application is approved they come here. Those are the people we need to welcome and help - and, by and large, we absolutely have done just that. We've helped millions of people get a new start here in this country legally. Those that don't abide by the requirements, that break the law, that don't meet the requirements, and that then demand favored treatment do, in fact, need to be sent back home. Otherwise there's no point in having any immigration laws or controls at all. In that case just let anyone and everyone that wants come on over. We had a working system of legal immigration for many generations and that's what we need to get back to. We don't need to make exceptions for current illegal immigrants. It will just set yet another precedence for corruption of our law.

 

[matt wade]

Cool your jets Cutter... This is one issue where I am only slightly liberal on.. ALL other issues I am as much a right wing fanatic as you..

Here is where I am coming from..

I have had leaders in churches in my area that have told me to my face that they will welcome with loving arms Hispanics that have the proper documents into their church... (talking about visiting.. not membership)...
But NO illegal is welcome to even come visit...

If an illegal visits a church and no one knows that they are illegal, that's one thing. Tell me Tim, what would you do in the following situation?

A person comes to visit your church. They sit down and as you are preaching you notice they are the very same person that you saw on the wanted poster in the post office the day prior. Would you just allow that person that is wanted to continue on their merry way, or would you report them to authorities?

If you would report the wanted criminal to authorities, then your are being hypocritical. You are allowing for one type of law breaker in your church (the illegal immigrant) but not the other type (the citizen on the run for a crime).

 

[Robert Snow]

If an illegal visits a church and no one knows that they are illegal, that's one thing. Tell me Tim, what would you do in the following situation?

A person comes to visit your church. They sit down and as you are preaching you notice they are the very same person that you saw on the wanted poster in the post office the day prior. Would you just allow that person that is wanted to continue on their merry way, or would you report them to authorities?

If you would report the wanted criminal to authorities, then your are being hypocritical. You are allowing for one type of law breaker in your church (the illegal immigrant) but not the other type (the citizen on the run for a crime).

We would be better off if the church didn't report people to any authority. The church should be a place where all can find sanctuary.

 

[just-want-peace]

The church should be a place where all can find sanctuary.

Since you don't state any limits to this premise, do you have any limits?

 

[matt wade]

We would be better off if the church didn't report people to any authority. The church should be a place where all can find sanctuary.

Please show me in the Scripture where a New Testament church has ever been a place a sanctuary?

We don't see that example in Scripture. Instead we are told:

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

If someone enters your church and you know they are committing a crime, the church has a responsibility to report it.

 

[matt wade]

Since you don't state any limits to this premise, do you have any limits?

Exactly. If someone just went on a murdering spree, should the church offer sanctuary? Is the church "base" and all the authorities need to back off while the criminal is "safe"?