Justification By Faith

[Charlie24]

Justification by Faith is hidden in the OT, there's a veil that covers it from plain sight. Christ would later come and pull back that veil, and the apostle Paul would completely remove it.

The Biblical introduction of Justification by Faith is found in Gen. 15:6,

"And he (Abraham) believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

Abraham was saved the same way we are in the New Covenant, Justification by Faith, not by any works, as the apostle Paul so directly pointed out in his epistles. Abraham proved his faith by his works. The righteousness he received for eternal life came solely by faith.

We also know that the faith Abraham exercised was in the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ, although Abraham didn't know His name. Christ Himself tells us that Abraham was very much aware of His coming.

John 8:56

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

For the OT saints righteousness was freely given by God through faith in the sacrifice of an innocent animal shedding its Blood on the alter, representing Christ on the Cross freely offering Himself, shedding His Blood as the atonement for man's sin.

Lev. 17:11

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."

The great apostle Paul completely removed this OT veil and gave us in detail the meaning of Justification by Faith in his epistles, which is the meaning of the Cross of Christ, which makes up the New Covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[Van]

Justification by Faith is hidden in the OT, there's a veil that covers it from plain sight. Christ would later come and pull back that veil, and the apostle Paul would completely remove it.

The Biblical introduction of Justification by Faith is found in Gen. 15:6,

"And he (Abraham) believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

SNIP

No, Abraham was not made righteous, when God credited it (Abraham's faith) to Abraham AS righteousness. Having righteous faith does not make a person righteous, does not remove the consequence of sin. That is why Abraham had to wait in "Abraham's bosom" to be made perfect, to undergo the washing of regeneration, and only then enter heaven.

How did Abraham, during his lifetime, see the Messiah's day, and rejoice? One view, which I accept, is when Abraham found the ram to be the sacrifice, replacing his son, he "saw" the day in that he saw what foreshadowed our Messiah.

Justification by faith, refers to God crediting the lost person's faith as righteousness, and on that basis, transferring that person's human spirit into Christ, where he or she undergoes the washing of regeneration, resulting in our justification.

 

[Charlie24]

No, Abraham was not made righteous, when God credited it (Abraham's faith) to Abraham AS righteousness. Having righteous faith does not make a person righteous, does not remove the consequence of sin. That is why Abraham had to wait in "Abraham's bosom" to be made perfect, to undergo the washing of regeneration, and only then enter heaven.

How did Abraham, during his lifetime, see the Messiah's day, and rejoice? One view, which I accept, is when Abraham found the ram to be the sacrifice, replacing his son, he "saw" the day in that he saw what foreshadowed our Messiah.

Justification by faith, refers to God crediting the lost person's faith as righteousness, and on that basis, transferring that person's human spirit into Christ, where he or she undergoes the washing of regeneration, resulting in our justification.

I would imagine that God gave Abraham a vision or a dream into the future on Christ. That seems to be the way God worked in the OT with many.

As usual we disagree on all the rest, especially on how Abraham became righteous in the sight of God.

With the OT saints, the blood of bulls and goats under the old economy could not atone for sin, even though their sins were covered by faith in what that sacrifice represented, which was Christ. It took the perfect Blood sacrifice of Christ to release the saints from Paradise (Abraham's bosom). That's the only thing that could break Satan's hold on sinful man. That is where Christ won the victory for us over death, hell, and the grave.

But of course we will never agree on any of this.

 

[Charlie24]

I would imagine that God gave Abraham a vision or a dream into the future on Christ. That seems to be the way God worked in the OT with many.

As usual we disagree on all the rest, especially on how Abraham became righteous in the sight of God.

With the OT saints, the blood of bulls and goats under the old economy could not atone for sin, even though their sins were covered by faith in what that sacrifice represented, which was Christ. It took the perfect Blood sacrifice of Christ to release the saints from Paradise (Abraham's bosom). That's the only thing that could break Satan's hold on sinful man. That is where Christ won the victory for us over death, hell, and the grave.

But of course we will never agree on any of this.

I know you're going to bring up the resurrection as a vital part of this, and it was!

Paul said the death, burial, and resurrection is the Gospel. They cannot be separated.

The death insured the resurrection as a sure thing. This is discussed in Hebrews.

 

[Silverhair]

No, Abraham was not made righteous, when God credited it (Abraham's faith) to Abraham AS righteousness. Having righteous faith does not make a person righteous, does not remove the consequence of sin. That is why Abraham had to wait in "Abraham's bosom" to be made perfect, to undergo the washing of regeneration, and only then enter heaven.

How did Abraham, during his lifetime, see the Messiah's day, and rejoice? One view, which I accept, is when Abraham found the ram to be the sacrifice, replacing his son, he "saw" the day in that he saw what foreshadowed our Messiah.

Justification by faith, refers to God crediting the lost person's faith as righteousness, and on that basis, transferring that person's human spirit into Christ, where he or she undergoes the washing of regeneration, resulting in our justification.

These verses disagree with your view Van.
Rom 9:30 What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

Rom_3:22 And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,

Those Gentiles who had trusted in Christ obtained a righteous standing before God. When they heard the gospel many of those Gentiles had accepted it and thus obtained righteousness, salvation.

What do we see Abram do?
Gen 15:6 Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Whether OT or NT it is the same. God credits our faith as righteousness. In other words we are saved.

 

[TheOneWhoLives]

That is why Abraham had to wait in "Abraham's bosom" to be made perfect, to undergo the washing of regeneration, and only then enter heaven.

What you are describing smacks of something similar to what Catholics believe in.

Oh wait, that’s called Purgatory.

 

[Van]

I would imagine that God gave Abraham a vision or a dream into the future on Christ. That seems to be the way God worked in the OT with many.

As usual we disagree on all the rest, especially on how Abraham became righteous in the sight of God.

With the OT saints, the blood of bulls and goats under the old economy could not atone for sin, even though their sins were covered by faith in what that sacrifice represented, which was Christ. It took the perfect Blood sacrifice of Christ to release the saints from Paradise (Abraham's bosom). That's the only thing that could break Satan's hold on sinful man. That is where Christ won the victory for us over death, hell, and the grave.

But of course we will never agree on any of this.

Yes, we disagree, you read God credited His faith to him as righteousness, and read into the text that crediting a person's faith makes his or her righteous. Nonsense.

Next you say sins are "covered" by faith. More nonsense.

Thirdly, you make the false claim that Abraham's bosom was paradise.

You seem to deny we are made righteous, not by our faith, but by the washing of regeneration which we undergo once transferred spiritually into Christ by God on the basis of Him crediting our faith as righteousness.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, we disagree, you read God credited His faith to him as righteousness, and read into the text that crediting a person's faith makes his or her righteous. Nonsense.

Next you say sins are "covered" by faith. More nonsense.

Thirdly, you make the false claim that Abraham's bosom was paradise.

You seem to deny we are made righteous, not by our faith, but by the washing of regeneration which we undergo once transferred spiritually into Christ by God on the basis of Him crediting our faith as righteousness.

There's no reasoning with you, Van. You are straight up denying the written Word of God!

You've already read that "Abraham believed God and He counted it to him for righteousness."

God grants righteousness to man solely on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ.

Wake up, Van!

 

[37818]

. . . Abraham had to wait in "Abraham's bosom" . . . .

That is stupid and just plain silly. Abraham was in the upper place of the neither world also known as paradise. [Luke 23:43; Ps 86:13.]

 

[Van]

There's no reasoning with you, Van. You are straight up denying the written Word of God!

You've already read that "Abraham believed God and He counted it to him for righteousness."

God grants righteousness to man solely on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ.

Wake up, Van!

Sir, did you type counted "it" to him. The it was Abraham's faith. Romans 4:5

 

[Charlie24]

There's no reasoning with you, Van. You are straight up denying the written Word of God!

You've already read that "Abraham believed God and He counted it to him for righteousness."

God grants righteousness to man solely on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ.

Wake up, Van!

Van, if we can't believe the apostle Paul, then we may as well throw our Bibles away and go live like the devil.

Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Do you see that? "WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Salvation is instant, on the spot, the very second we believe in Christ.

 

[Van]

That is stupid and just plain silly. Abraham was in the upper place of the neither world also known as paradise. [Luke 23:43; Ps 86:13.]

Your claim is nonsense. Paradise is the third heaven, the abode of God. Salvation prevent those saved from the Hades.

 

[Van]

Van, if we can't believe the apostle Paul, then we may as well throw our Bibles away and go live like the devil.

Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Do you see that? "WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Salvation is instant, on the spot, the very second we believe in Christ.

Sir, you understanding does not reflect what scripture actually says. Rather than changing verses, address when God credits our faith as righteousness. Do you think He chooses to save those whose faith He does NOT credit as righteousness?

Salvation is instant, the very second God transfers the lost person into Christ, on the basis of crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

 

[Charlie24]

Sir, you understanding does not reflect what scripture actually says. Rather than changing verses, address when God credits our faith as righteousness. Do you think He chooses to save those whose faith He does NOT credit as righteousness?

Salvation is instant, the very second God transfers the lost person into Christ, on the basis of crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

That transfer into Christ is the regeneration performed by the Holy Spirit on the spot the instant we believe.

Ephesians 1:13

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Put it all together, Van. Romans 10:9-10 and Eph. 1:13.

 

[37818]

Your claim is nonsense. Paradise is the third heaven, the abode of God. Salvation prevent those saved from the Hades.

Bosom, Luke,16:23; compare John 1:18.


Now Jesus when He physically died His soul went to the upper neither world, Paradise, [Acts 2:27, . . . Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.]
And Jesus after His resurrection, would move Paradise to the third Heaven per Ephesians 4:8, Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, we disagree, you read God credited His faith to him as righteousness, and read into the text that crediting a person's faith makes his or her righteous. Nonsense.

Next you say sins are "covered" by faith. More nonsense.

Thirdly, you make the false claim that Abraham's bosom was paradise.

You seem to deny we are made righteous, not by our faith, but by the washing of regeneration which we undergo once transferred spiritually into Christ by God on the basis of Him crediting our faith as righteousness.

Once Saved, Always Saved

OK . . . let's start with a biggie: "Once saved, always saved." I know that statement doesn't appear word for word in the Bible. However, Romans 10:9 & 10 says that if we believe Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised him from the dead, we shall (absolutely) be saved (sozo - made whole). Now...

www.baptistboard.com

Your words Van
"But who must decide or declare or credit our faith as being "faith in the truth?" Do we or does God? God does. When and if God credits our faith as righteousness, Romans Chapter 4, then He transfers our human spirit into Christ, where we undergo the washing of regeneration, making us alive together with Christ, and after being made firm in Christ (i.e. born anew) we are indwelt, such that we are in Christ and Christ is in us."

So to return to Gen 15:6 Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Justification By Faith

Justification by Faith is hidden in the OT, there's a veil that covers it from plain sight. Christ would later come and pull back that veil, and the apostle Paul would completely remove it. The Biblical introduction of Justification by Faith is found in Gen. 15:6, "And he (Abraham) believed...

www.baptistboard.com

"No, Abraham was not made righteous, when God credited it (Abraham's faith) to Abraham AS righteousness."

Abram believed God, God credited his faith as righteousness. So why do you say Abram had to wait in a holding place till later?

 

[Van]

That transfer into Christ is the regeneration performed by the Holy Spirit on the spot the instant we believe.

Ephesians 1:13

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Put it all together, Van. Romans 10:9-10 and Eph. 1:13.

I put it all together years ago. But you cite a verse that gives the sequence, 1) hear the word, 2) trust in the gospel, 3) then after you believe, 4) you were sealed in Christ with the Spirit of Promise.

And for the umpteenth time, who decides whether you believe, you or God!!!!!!! It is after God credits your faith as righteousness.

 

[Van]

Bosom, Luke,16:23; compare John 1:18.


Now Jesus when He physically died His soul went to the upper neither world, Paradise, [Acts 2:27, . . . Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.]
And Jesus after His resurrection, would move Paradise to the third Heaven per Ephesians 4:8, Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

If you continue to deny Paradise is the Third Heaven, it is pointless to continue. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4

 

[Charlie24]

I put it all together years ago. But you cite a verse that gives the sequence, 1) hear the word, 2) trust in the gospel, 3) then after you believe, 4) you were sealed in Christ with the Spirit of Promise.

And for the umpteenth time, who decides whether you believe, you or God!!!!!!! It is after God credits your faith as righteousness.

Christ is quoted as saying, "it is my Father's will that none should perish."

If God made the decision of who believes no one would be cast into the lake of fire.

Obviously man chooses his own way! What we call free will.

God gives the faith to all to believe when they hear the Gospel, but man must choose Christ or reject Him.

 

[Van]

Christ is quoted as saying, "it is my Father's will that none should perish."

If God made the decision of who believes no one would be cast into the lake of fire.

Obviously man chooses his own way! What we call free will.

God gives the faith to all to believe when they hear the Gospel, but man must choose Christ or reject Him.

God desires all people to be saved, according to His redemption plan, not according to the man-made nonsense of universalism.

He makes the decision of who believes when He credits the faith of some as righteousness.

People make autonomous choices within the purview allowed by God. If our heart has been hardened, we are unable to choose to believe.

The gift of faith is a fiction, but the gracious gift of credited faith is the main theme of Romans Chapter 4.