Justification By Faith

[Silverhair]

That's the point of total depravity. Did not Isaiah say and later Paul echoed his words, "there is none righteous, there is none that seek after God."

All of us were totally depraved with no way of searching out for God's righteousness.

That's why God must first search out for us with His Gospel.

What Isaiah and Paul were saying is that no one seeks God all the time.

The bible is clear that we can and are directed to seek God.

1Ch_22:19 Now set your heart and soul to seek the LORD your God.

Isa_55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near.

Isa_58:2 "Yet they seek Me day by day and delight to know My ways,

Luk 12:31 "But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

Act 17:27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

You have imposed your theology on to the words total depravity and read them as total inability. That is not a biblical view but it is a man-made one.

God expects us to seek Him and has provided the means to draw us to Him whether that is creation, conviction of sin, the gospel, etc.

To say the man can not seek God is to deny what the bible commands us to do and for which we will be held responsible for not doing.

Man sought after God all through the OT.

Man has sought after god as long as man has existed. Many have sought the wrong god but we know that many sought the right God, the God of creation.

 

[Charlie24]

What Isaiah and Paul were saying is that no one seeks God all the time.

The bible is clear that we can and are directed to seek God.

1Ch_22:19 Now set your heart and soul to seek the LORD your God.

Isa_55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near.

Isa_58:2 "Yet they seek Me day by day and delight to know My ways,

Luk 12:31 "But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

Act 17:27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

You have imposed your theology on to the words total depravity and read them as total inability. That is not a biblical view but it is a man-made one.

God expects us to seek Him and has provided the means to draw us to Him whether that is creation, conviction of sin, the gospel, etc.

To say the man can not seek God is to deny what the bible commands us to do and for which we will be held responsible for not doing.

Man sought after God all through the OT.

Man has sought after god as long as man has existed. Many have sought the wrong god but we know that many sought the right God, the God of creation.

No, man has not sought after God as long as man has existed!

Christ said, "no man can come to me except the Father draws him." That is total depravity. Unrighteous man has no idea that he needs God.

It's when the Gospel is heard that man realizes his need for God.

Most of the verses you posted are concerning Israel who knew God but have turned their backs on Him. Let's take a look at Acts. 17:27 for example where Paul is speaking to the Greek heathens.

These heathens have no knowledge of the One True God, how can they search for Him?

But now Paul, the one who has the Gospel and is ready to show them is there. He directs their attention to this One True God and tells them to seek out this God.

Do you see what is happening here? They on their own had no chance of seeking out God, but now one who can show them is there and draws their attention to that God.

We are blessed in America to have the Gospel message so near to us, we all have heard the Gospel, it's like we don't even pay attention to it anymore. But I can assure you it's not like this throughout the world.

 

[Charlie24]

No, man has not sought after God as long as man has existed!

Christ said, "no man can come to me except the Father draws him." That is total depravity. Unrighteous man has no idea that he needs God.

It's when the Gospel is heard that man realizes his need for God.

Most of the verses you posted are concerning Israel who knew God but have turned their backs on Him. Let's take a look at Acts. 17:27 for example where Paul is speaking to the Greek heathens.

These heathens have no knowledge of the One True God, how can they search for Him?

But now Paul, the one who has the Gospel and is ready to show them is there. He directs their attention to this One True God and tells them to seek out this God.

Do you see what is happening here? They on their own had no chance of seeking out God, but now one who can show them is there and draws their attention to that God.

We are blessed in America to have the Gospel message so near to us, we all have heard the Gospel, it's like we don't even pay attention to it anymore. But I can assure you it's not like this throughout the world.

One other point: "No man comes to me except my Father draws him." This is exactly what God was doing with these Greek heathens.

He was using Paul to draw them to Christ through the Gospel message that they may know who God is and be saved.

As I have said before, God must make the first move to search out the lost or no one will ever be saved.

 

[Silverhair]

No, man has not sought after God as long as man has existed!

Christ said, "no man can come to me except the Father draws him." That is total depravity. Unrighteous man has no idea that he needs God.

It's when the Gospel is heard that man realizes his need for God.

Most of the verses you posted are concerning Israel who knew God but have turned their backs on Him. Let's take a look at Acts. 17:27 for example where Paul is speaking to the Greek heathens.

These heathens have no knowledge of the One True God, how can they search for Him?

But now Paul, the one who has the Gospel and is ready to show them is there. He directs their attention to this One True God and tells them to seek out this God.

Do you see what is happening here? They on their own had no chance of seeking out God, but now one who can show them is there and draws their attention to that God.

We are blessed in America to have the Gospel message so near to us, we all have heard the Gospel, it's like we don't even pay attention to it anymore. But I can assure you it's not like this throughout the world.

So you are saying that God was wrong when He says man can seek Him and find Him.

Whether it is OT or NT we are told that we can and are expected to seek God.

By what you have said then none of the OT saints were saved as they could not know of the gospel message.

God has provided the various means with which to know that He exists and that you should seek Him.

Did you forget Romans 1:20. God said it clearly, man can know {Him} through the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, {which} have been clearly seen, {and these} being understood through what has been made, so that they {all men} are without excuse.

God expected man to seek Him out and that they could know that He {God} was the creator.

 

[Silverhair]

One other point: "No man comes to me except my Father draws him." This is exactly what God was doing with these Greek heathens.

He was using Paul to draw them to Christ through the Gospel message that they may know who God is and be saved.

As I have said before, God must make the first move to search out the lost or no one will ever be saved.

God has made the first move in various ways. Creation, conviction of sin, even the gospel message. But in the end it is still man that has to respond to those promptings.

The fact that God draws all man does not mean that all will respond to that drawing does it. Even those that heard Paul speak about the God of creation still had to choose to seek Him {God} which is just what he was saying "if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him"

And furthermore the bible is clear in the OT as well as the NT that man can and is expected to seek God. The fact most do not do so does not change the requirement.