Justification

[KenH]

also to examine yourself and look for works

God ordains everything, including any good works of His elect.

If anyone expects me to provide some "proof" that I am saved by God's sovereign grace, then you will be disappointed. If you want some "proof" that I am saved, then go ask Christ for it because He is the One who has it. I have none.

 

[JesusFan]

It's in the very same vein as Ro 2:13-15, but you 'faith-aloners' just can't bring yourselves to see it, let alone accept it.

saved unto good works, not saved due to good works

 

[DaveXR650]

If anyone expects me to provide some "proof" that I am saved by God's sovereign grace, then you will be disappointed. If you want some "proof" that I am saved, then go ask Christ for it because He is One who has it. I have none.

That's the right attitude to have but I've seen plenty of your posts on here and I would be willing to bet that no one would spend more than an hour with you and not realize that you are a believer. It used to be popular to teach progressive sanctification by drawing two lines sloping upward from left to right. The top line was your knowledge of yourself and the way it increased as you grew as a Christian. The other line also sloped upward but not at the same rate. I represented your actual life and conduct. Even though you were growing as a Christian and getting more holy and doing more, the gap between your understanding and actual practice tended to grow larger and therefore if anything, a mature Christian would be less satisfied with himself as he matured. But still, there is and must be some evidence of true faith.

 

[kyredneck]

You 'faith-aloners err greatly when you make our faith the source of our works. It is the heart born of the Spirit that is the source of both our faith and our works. It is by grace alone that God equips His children with such a heart that has the law written upon it, that hungers after righteousness.

No one denies that.

@KenH denies it:

The faith of the elect is not the source of their good works. It is not the new heart of the elect that is the source of good works. The source of the good works of the elect is God who ordains all things.[/QUOTE

 

[kyredneck]

saved unto good works, not saved due to good works

K. No prob.

 

[kyredneck]

It is not the new heart of the elect that is the source of good works. The source of the good works of the elect is God who ordains all things.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:3 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Does it occur to you that the 'new heart of the elect' IS the workmanship of God?:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord: I will put my laws on their heart, And upon their mind also will I write them; then saith he, Heb 10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people: Heb 8

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

11 in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; Col 2

 

[kyredneck]

Where does that kind of thinking leave those of us who, before God regenerated us, were not living an immoral life, or a life of violence, or a life of drug addiction, or a life of porn addiction, etc., etc., etc.?

Some of you just can't accept that 'regeneration' can and does occur loooong before conversion.

 

[KenH]

Does it occur to you that the 'new heart of the elect' IS the workmanship of God?

Absolutely.

Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Furthermore,

Ezekiel 16:6-14 “And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ Yes, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare. “When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine,” says the Lord God. “Then I washed you in water; yes, I thoroughly washed off your blood, and I anointed you with oil. I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk. I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck. And I put a jewel in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head. Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your clothing was of fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate pastry of fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. Your fame went out among the nations because of your beauty, for it was perfect through My splendor which I had bestowed on you,” says the Lord God. (emphasis mine)

 

[KenH]

Some of you just can't accept that 'regeneration' can and does occur loooong before conversion.

You are confusing the restraining and directing power of God's sovereignty with regeneration. Nowhere does the Bible teach regeneration long before faith and repentance are granted.

Of course, God chose His elect before the world began, so it was a "done deal" at that point. The rest is worked out in time according to God's purpose and for His glory.

 

[kyredneck]

You are confusing the restraining and directing power of God's sovereignty with regeneration.

You hold to 'gospel regeneration', as do most today. All who have not heard the gospel are bound for hell, right?

Nowhere does the Bible teach regeneration long before faith and repentance are granted.

Oh, but we're given many examples of it in the scriptures.

 

[KenH]

You hold to 'gospel regeneration', as do most today. All who have not heard the gospel are bound for hell, right?

Oh, but we're given many examples of it in the scriptures.

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Romans 10:14-15 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

 

[kyredneck]

as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

4 Lo, a presumptuous one! Not upright is his soul within him, And the righteous by his stedfastness liveth. Hab 2:5 YLT

6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: Ro 2

18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith.
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.
21 But as to Israel he saith, All the day long did I spread out my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Ro 10

12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, Jehovah hath made even both of them. Prov 20

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. Mt 13

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
27 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him. Mt 11

10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55

 

[KenH]

4 Lo, a presumptuous one! Not upright is his soul within him, And the righteous by his stedfastness liveth. Hab 2:5 YLT

6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: Ro 2

18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith.
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2



18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.
21 But as to Israel he saith, All the day long did I spread out my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Ro 10

12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, Jehovah hath made even both of them. Prov 20

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. Mt 13

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
27 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him. Mt 11

10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55

May I never say anything other than, "Amen!" to God's Word. Romans 3:4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.”

 

[KenH]

John 6:28-29 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”