Justified before saved !

[OldRegular]

I said nothing about your salvation, but I said you reject the Truth I have witnessed to. As far as the scripture that you posted, I am in agreement with the scripture, and Its not my job in a debate to exegete the scripture you bring to the debate, I exegete what I bring, you expect me to do both my work and your work to ? Forget about it.

You exegete nothing. You are a false witness because your beliefs are false. Scripture teaches truth. It is that simple!

 

[savedbymercy]

You exegete nothing. You are a false witness because your beliefs are false. Scripture teaches truth. It is that simple!

I tell you what, I will not be laboring to explain something you bring to the debate, you explain it yourself . Now in the mean time, that which I have presented, you have not been able to disprove, just reject !

 

[savedbymercy]

Slain from the foundation of the World ! cont

Christ's Death for the Elect was an Eternal Offering, given through the Eternal Spirit Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

It the Death or Offering of Christ was from a Human perspective offered in time, but ordained before time for its objects 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, The Church or the Elect of God 1 Pet 1:2, They would also be the foreknown of God Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

All those that would believe in God by Him 1 Pet 1:20-21

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.


And it's Meritorious Effects, His Death, are from Everlasting to Everlasting. The Effects of it had Eternal Influences on all that are Justified it from Pre Cross to Post Cross, and by it they all had been sanctified and perfected forever !

 

[OldRegular]

I repeat the following post for your information. The Scripture presented in that post is self explanatory to those with perception. The Scripture explains that Jesus Christ had to die so that Righteous God could justify, declare righteous, those who believe in Jesus Christ. Now that belief takes place in time, not before the foundation of the world, not before the believer even exists. Therefore, your claim that the elect are justified eternally is clearly false and absolute nonsense.

Originally Posted by savedbymercy
One of the problems with false religion is that they do not understand that the Elect are Justified before God, legally acquitted from all Punishment for their sins, while they are in a Lost state by Nature, and that is what they need to be saved from. The Elect have always been saved from the penalty of their sins by Election of Grace in Christ !

Response by OldRegular
Your above statement is self contradictory. You say the elect are

Originally Posted by savedbymercy
Justified before God ... while they are in a Lost state by Nature

You follow that by the statement:

Originally Posted by savedbymercy
The Elect have always been saved from the penalty of their sins by Election of Grace in Christ !

So you say they are lost and saved at the same time. That is a strange concept! However, both statements are contrary to Scripture:

Romans 3:21-26
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

We are told in the above Scripture that God justifies those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Now if you want to argue that a person can believe before he exists in time then do so. Or if you want to argue that the elect exist eternally, as does God, then do so.

In either case your doctrine is false, nonsensical, and contrary to Scripture, as shown in the above passage!

So I have explained the passage to you twice. Stop complaining . The Scripture clearly shows that you are spewing a false doctrine.

 

[OldRegular]

Christ's Death for the Elect was an Eternal Offering, given through the Eternal Spirit Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

It the Death or Offering of Christ was from a Human perspective offered in time, but ordained before time for its objects 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, The Church or the Elect of God 1 Pet 1:2, They would also be the foreknown of God Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

All those that would believe in God by Him 1 Pet 1:20-21

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.


And it's Meritorious Effects, His Death, are from Everlasting to Everlasting. The Effects of it had Eternal Influences on all that are Justified it from Pre Cross to Post Cross, and by it they all had been sanctified and perfected forever !

More mystical nonsense. Where do you get the stuff you post. Wherever it comes from it smells.

Nothing in the Scripture you posted above say anything indicating that the elect are justified in eternity past. I have presented Scripture showing that man is justified by his faith. Man cannot exercise faith unless he is alive.

 

[savedbymercy]

or

More mystical nonsense.

1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For the message about the cross is nonsense to those who are being destroyed, but it is God's power to us who

 

[savedbymercy]

or

I repeat the following post for your information.

Just because you repeated statements of denial and rejection do not mean nothing, that is not how you debate an issue.

I say it is, you say it aint lol..

As far as Rom 3:21-26 is concerned, as i stated before I embrace it. But I do not embrace you as one who knows the Truth, thats the difference, you are not Rom 3:21-26 nor do you understand it, you just quote it !

 

[OldRegular]

Your belief in eternal justification is false.

 

[savedbymercy]

Your belief in eternal justification is false.

You just do not believe God's Truth ! I have given it to you !

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Oh My!!

Are the Elect of God Justified before God before they are saved from their sins ?

One of the problems with false religion is that they do not understand that the Elect are Justified before God, legally acquitted from all Punishment for their sins, while they are in a Lost state by Nature, and that is what they need to be saved from. The Elect have always been saved from the penalty of their sins by Election of Grace in Christ !

Its liken to the Prodigal Son, he was always an Heir of Heaven but became estranged or alienated from his Father by his sin !

While being Alienated in a Life of sin, as the prodigal was, so It is with the Elect, they are Lost until they are found by the redemptive work of the Son is effected upon them, upon their conversion and return to God, it is stated thusly Lk 15:24

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

You see, his lostness was in his estrangement and alienation from God, as it is with the Elect in a lost state Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled



That was the issue with the prodigal, he became alienated and a enemy in his mind when he fell Lk 15:12-13

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

You see, going into sin was like going into a far country ! You know why ? Because he was really an Heir of Heaven, and when he is restored to right mind, he knows he is really a stranger in this earth,m in this far country.

But during all this time before his repentance being granted Lk 15:17

17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

he was always a Justified heir of heaven and beloved of his Father, but he did because of his willful alienation need to be saved from a Lost condition, but he was always forgiven and a heir of heaven !

You just demonstrated perfectly why the Calvinists mess up so badly when they build their doctrinal position on a parable. It is much like the problem that the Charismatics have trying to build their doctrines on the transitional book of Acts and the Paul's letters of rebuke in 1 and 2nd Corinthians. WOW!!!

Bro.Greg

 

[savedbymercy]

gp

You just demonstrated perfectly why the Calvinists mess up so badly when they build their doctrinal position on a parable.

And you just demonstrated perfectly how one rejects God's Truth !

 

[OldRegular]

Bro.Greg

You fail to understand that the pope has been replaced as the sole arbiter of the inerrant Word of God in all of God's creation by a coup d'état! So who is next?

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Time For A Little Jude vs3 "contending"!

gp



And you just demonstrated perfectly how one rejects God's Truth !

Fair warning...duck for cover...incoming Truth Grenade!!!

Brother...and I will call you brother...fortunately that is only your opinion! Interestingly, the views BOTH of us expressed are the products of a debate that is so polarized that it is certain that neither of us will likely ever come out on top. I believe I'm right and you're wrong...and you believe the opposite. The truth is somewhere in the middle I'm sure. For the record...from a contextual point of view, I believe I have a firm grasp on the eternal truths of a loving and merciful God Who by His marvelous Grace saves all poor sinners who call upon His name in repentance and faith. He is (without adding to or taking anything from the Word of God) a "whosoever will" God by His choice and His grace and it is NOT His will that any should perish...though many will simply by proudly rejecting Him in unbelief. You may believe what you wish. I'll follow the God of Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob while you follow the man whose heroes were Origen,Jerome, Augustine..... and probably Mary too. Great shades of the Holy Mother Church! That reformation...as good as it may have been simply did not go far enough! Thank God (and I mean that sincerely and as humbly as possible) I'm NOT a "protestant"! Go ahead....you may now demonize me to your hearts content. (I'm sure you probably will....) I'm just tired of the Calvinists consigning people my Lord died for to Hell without any choice in the matter. There...I said it...I'm done!

Bro.Greg

 

[savedbymercy]

gp

Brother...and I will call you brother...fortunately that is only your opinion!

No Its God's Truth !

 

[OldRegular]

The Apostle Paul writing in Ephesians 2:1-5 [NASB] tells us one more time:

1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Paul states the elect were dead in trespasses and sins and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest until God made us alive, saved us![/QUOTE]

sbm would have us believe that those whom God had justified, declared righteous, in eternity past are during our lifetime dead in trespasses and sins and by nature children of wrath. I would remind sbm that God is not the Author of confusion.

The Apostle Paul also tells us:

Romans 8:29, 30
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

sbm would have us believe that God justified the elect before they received the effectual call, that is, unless he believes we received the call before we existed!

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Really?

gp



No Its God's Truth !

Really?? No...that's just your very subjective opinion. It is the version of "truth" (as it were) that you cling to. I acknowledge ONLY that you are entitled to do so by your own Free Will:smilewinkgrin:!

Bro.Greg:laugh:

 

[savedbymercy]

gp

Really??

Yes really !

 

[savedbymercy]

or

Paul states the elect were dead in trespasses and sins and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest until God made us alive, saved us

They were. But that says nothing about them not being Justified. The scripture says that even while the elect were enemies, they were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And one cannot be Reconciled to God without being Justified, made Right Legally !

 

[OldRegular]

or



They were. But that says nothing about them not being Justified. The scripture says that even while the elect were enemies, they were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And one cannot be Reconciled to God without being Justified, made Right Legally !

You are shuckin and jivin; shufflin your feet so to speak. The issue is not whether the elect are justified it is when. You falsely insist they are justified eternally. The Apostle Paul settles the issue to those with perception.

Romans 5:1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Nonexistent people, elect or not, do not have faith!

The Apostle tells us further:

Romans 4:25. Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Now Jesus Christ was raised after He died and was buried.

 

[savedbymercy]

or

You are shuckin and jivin; shufflin your feet so to speak.

No I am giving you the Truth which you reject and are incapable of proving wrong.