Justified by the Law is a Scriptural Truth

[HankD]

Hank, lets be reasonable. He asked what could he do to inherit "eternal" life. Jesus is not going to give him a solution for something he never asked about! He did not ask about extendinng his PHYSICAL life. He was not accused of committing any capital offense. You are being completely unreasonable! He is asking about obtaining "eternal life" before God by something He could do - His works!

So he was not physically dead attempting to get physical life. He was not attempting to get around a capital offence. He was asking about "eternal" life by earning it by his works - "what CAN I DO."



Oh, I see it is tit for tat? Forget I said you did not misunderstand me if that offends you. My purpose was to demonstrate that the Biblical principle is justification, in the sense of being declared righteous, is precisely what Jesus is teaching through proper obedience to the Law. The only thing that prevents that principle from being a reality is our sinfulness. However, Jesus is approaching this according to the Biblical principle and from the perspective of the Jews of his day who actually believed they could be justified by keeping the law. In essence, Christ said, yes, the law will justify those who do it, so here is the law go for it and see if you can do it. That is precisely what Saul of Tarsus did, he went for it and by going for it the Law condemned his efforts rather than rewarded them as it exposed his sinful nature.

However, the problem was not with the Law or the principle of justification by the Law for those who keep it. The problem was in the flesh which had already violated it and continues to violate it when attempting to keep it sinlessly.

Forget it.

HankD

 

[Aaron]

Can't you read plain English even when it is made bold and underlined? What do you think blah ba-blah blah.

Lol. The problem isn't in Christ's words, it's in your supposed expositions.

 

[th1bill]

I am no youngster. I have been in the ministry for 45 years, four graduate degrees in Bible and written and published over 40 books on Bible subjects and General Editor of a KJV New Testament study Bible. And as far as age we are only 5 years apart. My picture was taken during my early 60's when I had hair on top of my head.



You obviously don't understand what I wrote as I am not even remotely suggesting that any man can ascend into heaven by keeping the law. I suggest you reread what I said carefully and understand it first before speaking. You certainly do not understand what I wrote or you would not say such things. Perhaps, it may be my fault in not stating my position more plainly, or easily for you to grasp.

Therefore, let me state it positively instead of negatively so you are sure to grasp it (at least I hope). There is but one way, one savior, one gospel of salvation and it is wholly by grace without works - no other way between Genesis and Revelation! Got it? So that is not my dispute.

Second, the law was never given or designed to justify sinners and is incapable of granting eternal life to any sinner. Got it? So that is not my dispute.

Third, the law condemns sinners but it does not condemn righteous, meaning sinless persons - that is fact!

Fourth, the Jews didn't believe any of the above! They believed they could indeed be declared righteous by the Law by doing their works. Of course they were wrong, but a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. Jesus approached the Lawyer and Rich Young Ruler ON THEIR TERMS. Their terms was, "I CAN DO" what God requires to inherit eternal life. Sure they were deceived, sure they are wrong, but nevertheless, Jesus meets them on their level and says, OK, if you want to obtain eternal life by SOMETHING YOU CAN DO, then just keep the Law (not how you interpret keeping it but how God interprets keeping it) and sure enough you will be declared righteous before God and thus not under the condemnation of the law and inherit eternal life. That is impossible BECAUSE THEY ARE SINNERS! You are right, it is impossible, but nevertheless, the premise is true, IF they can do that they will be declared righteous, they will not be under the condemnation of death by the law and therefore they will inherit eternal life. So Jesus says, "DO THIS and THOU SHALT LIVE"! So Bill, are you going to call Christ a liar? or is what he says true? It is one or the other? Which is it Bill? If you don't grasp this Bill you will be a sitting duck for the "new perspective on Paul" theory!

I did have grip on your theology and your use of it and for that I owe you an apology, a sincere one and please accept my apology.

FYI: I had to leave school in the second semester of the ninth grade and at 72 I am writing my first book but is about what I learned in three tours in Vietnam. My theology is, by and large, gleaned from my studies and by asking questions. Again, I am sorry.

 

[The Biblicist]

I did have grip on your theology and your use of it and for that I owe you an apology, a sincere one and please accept my apology.

FYI: I had to leave school in the second semester of the ninth grade and at 72 I am writing my first book but is about what I learned in three tours in Vietnam. My theology is, by and large, gleaned from my studies and by asking questions. Again, I am sorry.

Apology accepted. BTW I served one tour in Vietnam also. What is the nature of your book?

 

[The Biblicist]

Here is consistent evidence that the Law is the basis for declaring righteous those without sin (even though no such son of Adam exists). Here is also proof that the Jews did believe that keeping the law would obtain a right moral standing before God.

1. Lk. 10:28 - The Lawyer "What shall I do to inherit eternal life......what is written in the Law.....This do and thou shalt live"
2. The Rich Young Ruler "what shall I do to inherit eternal life......If thou wilt be perfect..."
3. Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Therefore, the phrases "justified by faith....without works" and "the works of the law" do refer to a moral righteous standing obtained by works as that is precisely what the three examples above demonstrate as the common Jewish thinking with regard to the Law.

Consequently, Paul is condemning the system of justification by works, or condemning the idea that a right moral standing can be acheived by works. He is not speaking about covenant identification as the people of God but he is speaking about and condmenning the attempt to be received as the people of God through works.

 

[th1bill]

I began mu first tour flying VIPs with the 11th Avn of the first Cav. and finished it with the 15 Trans. repairing the helicopters I have flown on as Senior (Lifer) Crew Chief before Major Short Arm and I argued about me getting my rear end aboard the aircraft that I had just Red Xed for Excessive Play in the Rear end. I did last 7 more days before it was delivered to the Fifteenth by the Chinook that extracted it from the jungle.

My second tour, I was assigned to the Eleventh again but while I was in the Hospital at China Beach, the One Hundred and first took over the DMZ area and we moved south.
ride south it was from my favor Wobbly One and he explained to me that Two FNGs had been assigned to my platoon and that as the Sweepers were locating mines to remove from the chosen Division HQ site, Top got tired of waiting and sent them both in our, un-swept, designated area, dragging the Tent for the orderly Room. One kid was blown to pieces I was informed by the Wobbly and the other died before the Dust Off got there. He wanted to enlist my help in putting Top in LBJ and later to be transfered tp Ft. Leavenworth. I worked with him, Top found out through some Rat told on us and we both got the Death Sentence and were transfered to the 229th, losing more men a week than any other Battalion in Vietnam. I was assigned to Bravo Company, the Killer Spades as was the Wobbly, he was shot down 3 weeks later and the Main Rotor took his and the copilots heads off.

I have left a lot out to make it short enough to be publishable. At this time I am at 71,000 words and as a novel it should be between 70,000 and 80,000. The stuff I left out is like the pleasure of Head Crusher and other really gross stuff. I'm on the last chapter and if the book never publishes, My grand-baby will have an idea what her Papaw did in a large portion of the sixties.

 

[The Biblicist]

I began mu first tour flying VIPs with the 11th Avn of the first Cav. and finished it with the 15 Trans. repairing the helicopters I have flown on as Senior (Lifer) Crew Chief before Major Short Arm and I argued about me getting my rear end aboard the aircraft that I had just Red Xed for Excessive Play in the Rear end. I did last 7 more days before it was delivered to the Fifteenth by the Chinook that extracted it from the jungle.

My second tour, I was assigned to the Eleventh again but while I was in the Hospital at China Beach, the One Hundred and first took over the DMZ area and we moved south.
ride south it was from my favor Wobbly One and he explained to me that Two FNGs had been assigned to my platoon and that as the Sweepers were locating mines to remove from the chosen Division HQ site, Top got tired of waiting and sent them both in our, un-swept, designated area, dragging the Tent for the orderly Room. One kid was blown to pieces I was informed by the Wobbly and the other died before the Dust Off got there. He wanted to enlist my help in putting Top in LBJ and later to be transfered tp Ft. Leavenworth. I worked with him, Top found out through some Rat told on us and we both got the Death Sentence and were transfered to the 229th, losing more men a week than any other Battalion in Vietnam. I was assigned to Bravo Company, the Killer Spades as was the Wobbly, he was shot down 3 weeks later and the Main Rotor took his and the copilots heads off.

I have left a lot out to make it short enough to be publishable. At this time I am at 71,000 words and as a novel it should be between 70,000 and 80,000. The stuff I left out is like the pleasure of Head Crusher and other really gross stuff. I'm on the last chapter and if the book never publishes, My grand-baby will have an idea what her Papaw did in a large portion of the sixties.

I tip my hat to you sir! You are a great American!

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is consistent evidence that the Law is the basis for declaring righteous those without sin (even though no such son of Adam exists). Here is also proof that the Jews did believe that keeping the law would obtain a right moral standing before God.

1. Lk. 10:28 - The Lawyer "What shall I do to inherit eternal life......what is written in the Law.....This do and thou shalt live"
2. The Rich Young Ruler "what shall I do to inherit eternal life......If thou wilt be perfect..."
3. Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Therefore, the phrases "justified by faith....without works" and "the works of the law" do refer to a moral righteous standing obtained by works as that is precisely what the three examples above demonstrate as the common Jewish thinking with regard to the Law.

Consequently, Paul is condemning the system of justification by works, or condemning the idea that a right moral standing can be acheived by works. He is not speaking about covenant identification as the people of God but he is speaking about and condmenning the attempt to be received as the people of God through works.

So Paul would not be agreeing with NT Wright that we have misunderstood his views on justification, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

So Paul would not be agreeing with NT Wright that we have misunderstood his views on justification, correct?

Hard to believe that many calvinists/reformed have fallen for his theology!