Justified while Ungodly !

[savedbymercy]

bib

Go back and learn how to read!

You need to learn how to read !

Look at the present tense "BEING" not "HAVING BEEN"!

But how ? How are they being Justified ? Its in the present tense but also the passive voice, so how ?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Maybe the problem with forum participants is that as soon as one has found something he disagrees about with someone else, he will not again as much as read what that person might write; and will in advance have decided that whatever that person says, it also must be disagreed with because it's wrong, mostly without having paid any attention to it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

SBM:
Romans 3:24
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

TB:
Go back and learn how to read!

SBM:
You need to learn how to read !

Quote:

TB:
Look at the present tense "BEING" not "HAVING BEEN"!


SBM:
But how ? How are they being Justified ? Its in the present tense but also the passive voice, so how ?

GE:


“Through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” … “ from before the foundation of the world” (first aspect) … “by his grace … freely” (last aspect).

The first ('in time') in God only, the one not without the other; the last, “by his grace … freely” as in God, so in us ('in time') the one not without the other.

Their is no reconciliation in God with us but for Christ; there is no reconciliation for us but in Christ, in us.

Grace though free, is most costly, as in Christ, so in us. It comes at no cost, but demands everything as soon as settled in the heart.

 

[savedbymercy]

Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

I am glad that the fact of this "being Justified freely by Grace", this being in the present tense means they are born that way objectively. Yes, the Elect, while being born[experimentally] by nature children of wrath as others, are yet born in a state of Justification before God, freely by Grace through the redemption they have in Christ Jesus their risen Saviour and Surety !

 

[savedbymercy]

The declared Blessing of Rom 4:25



All those Jesus Christ died for are by His Death made Righteous Rom 5:19, first and foremost before God, and this is their Justification, this is True because Paul states before, in regards to all for whom He died, that He was delivered on account of our sins or Transgressions, this was because they had been charged to Him 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for [for the sake of] our sins according to the scriptures; 2 Cor 5:21

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Note: In order for Christ to have died for sin, the sins had to be charged to Him !

And He was raised again on account of our Justification, because their Justification was an accomplished Fact Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for [on account of]our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.

Now if Christ died and rose again for an Individual in 33 ad, and this individual or individuals were not physically born sinners until 1960ad, this sinner or sinners are born already Justified, unless we undo the accomplished fact that the resurrection of Christ verified !

If all for whom Christ died for the sake of, had not been Justified or made Righteous before God, by His obedience unto Death [Phil 2:8], then He could not have or would not have been raised from the dead, and all for whom He did die would still be in their sins ! 1 Cor 15:17. You see the resurrection took place as a consequence of the Justification of all Christ died for, in the same manner, His death occurred as a consequence of the sins of all He died for. The Resurrection proved that God had been fully satisfied and propitiated, and all our sins forgiven, at the Blood of Christ !

 

[savedbymercy]

More on Rom 4:25



Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Jesus Christ's Death on the Cross has completely satisfied all of God's Righteous requirements on behalf of those He died for, in that they are Justified, made right with God through Jesus Christ, His Death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now His Resurrection proves that God's Law and Justice has been satisfied has been satisfied by Christ's Death and that All concerned are hereby Justified or absolved [remission of sins]because of what Christ has done for them Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Everyone that Christ has died for, no matter what, no matter that they are born by nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, their Justification and remission of sin before God through Jesus Christ Death is a completed fact forever Heb 9:12. The word redemption in this verse means deliverance from the penalty of sin, which equals Justification ! This fact just is not known to the redeemed, until it is revealed by the Spirit through the Gospel, for the Just shall live by Faith. In other words this Free Gift of Justification that they have through the Merits of Christ Alone, shall be made known to them by the Spirit in due time 1 Tim 2:6, for since they are made Just or righteous by Christ's obedience alone [Rom 5:19] they shall and must live by Faith, So in God's Time they are given a new Birth by the Spirit, and given as a Fruit of the Spirit, Faith to receive the Gospel Revelation of their Justification, and Praise God for His Grace ! The Justification they have that was evidenced by Christ's Resurrection shall be made known to them !

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

More on Rom 4:25



Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Jesus Christ's Death on the Cross has completely satisfied all of God's Righteous requirements on behalf of those He died for, in that they are Justified, made right with God through Jesus Christ, His Death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now His Resurrection proves that God's Law and Justice has been satisfied has been satisfied by Christ's Death and that All concerned are hereby Justified or absolved [remission of sins]because of what Christ has done for them Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Everyone that Christ has died for, no matter what, no matter that they are born by nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, their Justification and remission of sin before God through Jesus Christ Death is a completed fact forever Heb 9:12. The word redemption in this verse means deliverance from the penalty of sin, which equals Justification ! This fact just is not known to the redeemed, until it is revealed by the Spirit through the Gospel, for the Just shall live by Faith. In other words this Free Gift of Justification that they have through the Merits of Christ Alone, shall be made known to them by the Spirit in due time 1 Tim 2:6, for since they are made Just or righteous by Christ's obedience alone [Rom 5:19] they shall and must live by Faith, So in God's Time they are given a new Birth by the Spirit, and given as a Fruit of the Spirit, Faith to receive the Gospel Revelation of their Justification, and Praise God for His Grace ! The Justification they have that was evidenced by Christ's Resurrection shall be made known to them !

GE:

Amen, brother! Praise the LORD!

 

[savedbymercy]

Justified while Ungodly !

God Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Note, its not Justifying the Believer, but the ones Believing , believed on Him that is Justifying the Ungodly, meaning God Justifieth the Elect while they were in a state of Ungodliness, as they were reconciled to God while they were being enemies Rom 5:10, even while they were being by nature Children of wrath as others !

Abraham was in a state of ungodliness when God Justified him ! As all are Justified by Christ's Righteousness, Abraham, while Ungodly was shown His Righteousness in the coming seed, so He rejoiced to see His Day !

 

[savedbymercy]

Justified before saved !



Paul writes Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The Elect are Justified solely by the Blood of Christ, even before they are saved ! Paul states to the Church, being now Justified by His Blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. The we here is not just those he was then writing to, but includes all for whom the Blood of the Covenant was shed for, the many Matt 26:28, for they all were Justified by His Blood no matter what generation they would be born in, they shall be saved from wrath through Him ! All the Elect of God because of the Blood of Christ alone are saved from God's Wrath in this Life and the One to come. Those born children of wrath by nature, are even saved from God's Wrath, were others are said to have it abiding on them Jn 3:36

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

God's wrath cannot be abiding on a Justified person, made so by Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19b, even though they are born enemies and unbelievers by Nature as Others !

 

[savedbymercy]

God imputes Righteousness without Works !



Rom 4:6

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

God imputes Righteousness without Works , that is previous acts from the sinner, without works. Works is the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Basically this means that this person or persons had Righteousness imputed unto them for not doing anything !

This includes heart Work by which we Believe Rom 10:10

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is so because Righteousness is imputed solely because of Christ's Obedience to Law and Justice on behalf of all He died in the stead of Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

All for whom Christ died [The Many] have Righteousness imputed to them, even while they are " by nature, children of wrath as others" !

 

[savedbymercy]

Abraham's Righteousness !



Rom 4:3,5

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now Abraham's Righteousness, like any other of God's People, lies in Christ alone 1 Cor 1:30

30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Jer 23:6

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

And not in His Faith- For Faith embraces[in the mind] the imputed Righteousness of Christ, so it cannot be that Righteousness; Now with that in mind, it never was Abraham's act of Faith or Believing that caused God to Justify him, but it was that Christ's Righteousness had been imputed to his account, so that he believed on Him that Justifies the ungodly. Yes Abraham was Justified by Faith Rom 5:1, and so are his Spiritual Seed Gal 3:7, but not by Faith as an act of the sinner,lest then it becomes Justification by works or acts, but they were Justified by Faith subjectively, when Christ Righteousness is revealed or made known to us in the Gospel as per Rom 1:16-17

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Righteousness of God here is the same as here 2 Cor 5:21

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Gospel reveals or makes known to everyone Christ was made to be sin for, the Righteousness of God, they were made in Him !

This Righteousness must be made known, we do not act it out, for again, that is works ! Abraham as well as His Spiritual Children have Christ as their Righteousness, not their act of Faith which embraces it !

 

[savedbymercy]

Justified by His Blood



All for whom Christ died scripture indicates that they are Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The word Justified is the greek word dikaioō and means:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So everyone Christ died for is declared Righteous before God, and their deliverance from God's Wrath is ensured, that is from His retributive wrath for their sins. They by the Blood of Christ [alone] are freed from the Law of sin and Death, in that God in Justice can never punish them for their sins again for Christ's Sake. Even when one who is covered by the Blood of the lamb, is born into this world as a by nature, child of wrath as others, they are never and can never be under God's vindictive and punitive wrath, for that could only be if Christ had not already satisfied all of God's Law and Justice on their behalf by His Cross ! Consequently, every ungodly sinner that is born into this world, whom Christ died for Rom 5:6, shed His Blood for, are already Justified from all things, and stand before God clothed in the perfect Righteousness of Christ, solely by Grace Rom 3:24; Yes in themselves deserving as others wrath and condemnation, but because of Christ, they are born into this world, even as ungodly sinners, Heirs of Eternal Glory !

 

[savedbymercy]

Freed from sin !



Rom 6:7

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

2 Cor 5:14

14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

All for whom Christ died for, His Body the Church, actually in the eyes of God's Law and Justice, died with Him, and so be dead, they are dead to sin and dead to the law !

Rom 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Paul is saying, all for whom Christ died are dead to the Law because of His Body, that is because of this 1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

You see how both Paul and Peter teach the same thing ?

Now when I say that the Elect or the Body of Christ is freed from their sins, what is meant, not that they are not born sinners, in fact, some of the worst sort of sinners they may be, but they are born free from the condemnation of sin, they are born sinners acquitted of all their transgressions. The word freed in Rom 6:7 is the greek word dikaioō:

and means:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

They are born as sinners already Justified or declared Righteous before the sight of God. They have no sins charged against them, Because, Christ has paid their redemption price already, even though it has yet been experimentally applied to them by their New Birth !

So Christ's Sheep cannot be born as others condemned already ! Those to it is said this of Jn 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Their condemnation is not because of their unbelief or their refusal to believe on the Son, but for their sins against God's Law are they condemned already, and their refusal believe is an evidence of they being under condemnation !

But those Christ died for, they cannot be condemned by God's law as unbelievers, because Christ has satisfied all of God's Law and Justice on their behalf, so they are born freed from sin ! and dead to the law by the body of Christ !

 

[savedbymercy]

Born dead to the Law !



Rom 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Paul is speaking to believers, and what he writes to them, is that they have become dead to the Law ! But how ? By the Body of Christ, which means by His Death !

Every sinner that Christ died for is born into this world dead to the law, meaning God's Law and Justice on their behalf has been honored completely, it cannot bring one charge against them, that God can accuse them of and hold them liable, no not one! Thats what Paul means in fact when He wrote Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

One does not have to be a believer to be of God's Elect, that Christ died for. The Elect are Elect way before they believe, Just as they are Sheep before they believe, and so it is, if Christ died for them, and satisfied law and Justice of Broken Law, on their behalf, then when they are born into the world sinners, God has nothing to charge them with, for Christ has already died for them !

Now, they, the Elect, are born into this blessed state [Justified before God by the Blood of Christ], so that they should live unto God or be married to another, that is for Him that died and rose again 2 Cor 5:15

15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Christ's Death alone also sanctified them so that they should Live unto God Heb 10:10

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Thats what Rom 7:4 means, the Elect are dead to the Law by the offering of the body of Christ !

Now it is in light of this, that each sinner Christ died for, and has satisfied God's law and Justice for, it is imperative for them, each one of them to be born again, so that they can live unto God, and fulfill the purpose for which they were sanctified by the offering of the Body of Christ. Christ's Death did not set the elect apart for no purpose, but it was in pursuit of good works [spiritual] purposed beforehand, that they should walk unto Eph 2:10

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I already know the natural mind cannot receive this Teaching of scripture, that all for whom Christ died, even though they are born into this world children of wrath [by nature] as others, that nevertheless, not one charge can be laid upon them[Legally] to accuse them of breaking God's Law, and that they are Justified and declared Righteous already in God's sight, for Christ's Sake !

 

[savedbymercy]

Who are the objects of God's Justification ?

I do not believe it can be made more plainer who they are Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


It's the Elect of God, and them only !

 

[savedbymercy]

Justified before God before and apart from Faith !

That all for whom Christ died, shed His Blood for, gave Himself for, that they are all Justified before God by it [His Blood] even as the blessed resurrection so declares it Rom 4:25: That this is the case is collaborated by the Truth of Rom 5:19b

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That by the one obedience [active and passive] of ONE MAN ALONE [Jesus Christ] many SHALL be made Righteous, or as the Prophet Isaiah says it, He shall Justify many Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Some Translate like this

ESV Isa 53:11

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[a] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.

So it is by the obedience of ONE, shall many be declared Righteous or Justified. Now this comes about by only the obedience of One, and not Two, which would be the case if Faith by the believer is being considered, in that, that is also obedience, as in the obedience of Faith [believing] Rom 16:26

26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

Also Rom 10:16-17

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

These makes it clear that Faith is an act of obedience to the Gospel. Those who say Faith is not an act of obedience, are LIARS,plain and simple.

But according to the Truth of Rom 5:19b, many shall be made righteous, and that not by the obedience of Two, but one ! To deny this, debate it, is nothing but rejection of the Gospel Truth !

 

[savedbymercy]

The Just shall live by Faith !



That those Christ died for are Justified before they believe, made Righteous or Just Rom 5:19

by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word righteous is the greek word dikaios and is translated Just 33 times, for instance here Rom 1:16-17


17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So Rom 5:19 could actually read:

by the obedience of one shall many be made Just

The obedience here is His Death, by His obedience unto death [Phil 2:8] shall many be made Just !

Now, all those who are Just [Justified] by His Obedience, shall live by Faith in the future.

So clearly, being made Just or Justified, precedes living by Faith. This is Justification before God before Faith !

Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hab 2:4

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

 

[The Biblicist]

Justified by His Blood



All for whom Christ died scripture indicates that they are Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The word Justified is the greek word dikaioō and means:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So everyone Christ died for is declared Righteous before God, and their deliverance from God's Wrath is ensured, that is from His retributive wrath for their sins. They by the Blood of Christ [alone] are freed from the Law of sin and Death, in that God in Justice can never punish them for their sins again for Christ's Sake. Even when one who is covered by the Blood of the lamb, is born into this world as a by nature, child of wrath as others, they are never and can never be under God's vindictive and punitive wrath, for that could only be if Christ had not already satisfied all of God's Law and Justice on their behalf by His Cross ! Consequently, every ungodly sinner that is born into this world, whom Christ died for Rom 5:6, shed His Blood for, are already Justified from all things, and stand before God clothed in the perfect Righteousness of Christ, solely by Grace Rom 3:24; Yes in themselves deserving as others wrath and condemnation, but because of Christ, they are born into this world, even as ungodly sinners, Heirs of Eternal Glory !

Just for your own information Romans 3-5:1 precede Romans 5:9. Romans 3:24-5:1 clearly and explicitly define justification is by faith "in the blood" of Christ (Rom. 3:25). Romans 4-5:1 further defines justification is by faith.

From Romans 5:1 throughout the rest of the book of Romans whenever the term "justified" is found it is to be interpreted by Romans 3:24-5:1.

Hence, your whole theory is complete eisgesis and a repudiation of Paul's teaching. However, talking to you is like talking to the wall - it makes no difference because you have eyes that see not and ears that do not hear.

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

Just for your own information Romans 3-5:1 precede Romans 5:9.

Does not mean anything, Rom 5:1 is based on Rom 5:9, If one Has not been Justified by the blood, then Faith cannot make it known to the one who was Justified by the Blood of Christ !

Faith reveals Justification, embraces it, but it had to already exist, which the Resurrection of Christ made evident Rom 4:25.

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

You deny that, you deny the Gospel !

 

[savedbymercy]

Justified by Grace ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Justification is a gracious act of God, because of the redemption in Christ's Blood Eph 1:7 !

That even when unworthy in ourselves, and ungodly Rom 5:6; Rom 4:5, God does freely acquit us, that is all for whom Christ died, of all Transgressions of His Law, and accepts us into His Favour and declares us Righteous, with a Righteousness that has been freely imputed to us, even while we ourselves are in unbelief !

This free and gracious Justification of All for whom Christ died, will in God's time, will be revealed to each of them for whom He died and Justified, so they shall live by Faith !

Faith being not a condition, but a means of revealing or making known that Justification, that already exists in God's Mind, that is already credited to ones account, because of Christ's redemptive blood.