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Keep commandments?The tree of life?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by GAPS119X20, Dec 15, 2001.

  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DHK:


    GAPS, I am a Baptist preacher.
    DHK
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Just out of curiosity, what is your theological background? Where did you study?
     
  2. Gloria1

    Gloria1 New Member

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    But DHK, you do no tread the bible by counting the number of times words are metionned in it. First I must tell you that to be counted among the righteous is a graven image and therefore a strange God because Jesus was God and he ordered the apostels to tell noone. So from here I can easy conclude that the "ideal" to be saved is an "idol."

    "I. I AM THE LORD THY GOD: THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME."

    Next you wrote that the law was mentionned often in Galations but only to indicate that we have been set free from the law and if we, as Christians (as the Galatians were), "seek [our] justification in the law [we] have severed ourselves from Christ and fallen from Gods favor." (Gal.5:4).

    Or was it not for liberty that Christ freed us?

    Gloria
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Gloria,
    Romans 8:1-3
    8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
     
  4. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20 New Member

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    Hi
    Are you really keeping the Sabbath? Or are you just one of those hypocrital pretenders as I suspect you are?
    DHK

    I can almost feel the love DHK,that you so proudly boast of in fulfulling thw law.
     
  5. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20 New Member

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    Hi Trying 2
    I was brought up catholic but never knew what they were saying as it was still done in latin at the time.Choose to go to baptist church in my late twentys,for a few years.Then i started reading the bible and studying on my own.I havent belonged to a church for many years.I have a feeling theres a true church out there somewhere because the bible says do not forsake the coming together.I do no the true church will be keeping all 10 of GODS commandments and have the testimony of Christ.
     
  6. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20 New Member

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    Gibbon-sanctify themselves

    Has anyone read the book written by cardinal James Gibbon. The book is called The Faith of our Fathers.In it he explains why the church no longer needs to keep the Sabbath of God. Keep in mind that he should know the history of the church being one step away from popedumship.On page 11 he states that the chuch no longer sanctifys the Sabbath as a day of rest. The church now sanctifys sunday in honor of Christ being raised from the dead. , even though their is no scriptural
    basis for the change.

    It appears to me that the daughters which came out of the mother church still have some of the DNA of the mother church although they wont come out and say they can change the commandments of GOD as does the mother church.
    They all have different ways to get rid of GODS Sabbath.

    EZEKIEL 20[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know
    that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

    MY Sabbaths-sign-I the LORD sanctify them

    ISAIAH 66[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger
    with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and
    the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens
    behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together,
    saith the LORD.

    Fire,whirlwind(Day of the Lord)- sanctify themselves(as cardinal Gibbon explained)-one tree in the
    midst (graven image maybe)? I suppose it could even be a wooden cross! Thats a whole nother commandment
    that people ignore.

    No matter how many ways people will try and explain away the sabbath that GOD created for us,the bottom line is THE DAY OF THE LORD!
     
  7. Pauline

    Pauline New Member

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    Gaps,
    We know that the NT Christians were meeting on the first day of the week, 1 Cor 16,2.
    We know that Jesus named all the other commandments specifically, but not the sabbath commandment. We know that He said that He was/is Lord of the sabbath - thereby showing He had the authority and power to change it. And we know from the writings of an early Jewish historian that Jesus had a reputation among the Jews as being one who did not keep the sabbath.

    Yes, the early Christians went to the Jewish temple and synagogues and they did preach the gospel to people there. But they did not name the keeping of the sabbath at the Council in Jerusalem, read Acts 15. They would have named it there if they were required to keep it.

    There's too much evidence against your claims in regard to the sabbath. There is no line of sabbath keepers down from the apostles to today. And those who claim we have to keep it, rely on OT passages that were intended for the Israelites throughout their generations.

    Pauline
     
  8. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAPS119X20:
    Hi Trying 2
    I was brought up catholic but never knew what they were saying as it was still done in latin at the time.Choose to go to baptist church in my late twentys,for a few years.Then i started reading the bible and studying on my own.I havent belonged to a church for many years.I have a feeling theres a true church out there somewhere because the bible says do not forsake the coming together.I do no the true church will be keeping all 10 of GODS commandments and have the testimony of Christ.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hi, very nice to meet you. Actually my question was meant for DHK. He has just commented that he was a preacher and I was curious as to his formal training. I'm still hoping that he will be kind enough to humor my question.

    At any rate, if the Mass was still in Latin when you were growing up, why didn't you take the time to learn Latin? Even with the Mass now offered in countless languages, I find my knowledge of Latin to invaluable. When my parents were growing up it was very common to study Latin, fairly common for my peer group, and sadly, uncommon today. Just part of the dumbing down situation of education, I suppose.

    Interesting that you chose to leave a baptist church to start studying the Bible on your own. An particular history to go with that? Did you find yourself asking questions that the pastor couldn't answer? While I am a life long practicing Catholic, I have attended a Bible study at the local Baptist church for the past couple of years. Out of a congregation of about 200-250 baptists, there are usually five to ten people at the study group, including the pastor and myself. Some nights, none of them show up, so the pastor and I go to a restaurant. The real difficulty is that usually he is unable to answer any questions that I have. He pretty much depends upon the resources that he has available on his laptop computer. I don't know what he would do without it.

    As to the existence of a "true Church", if you are reading the Bible, you should have more than a feeling. Jesus was very direct when He founded His Church. Remember that He said, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

    I'm glad that you are looking. Ususally when you are looking for something, it's best to start at the beginnning. Now where did you say you were when you lost it? [​IMG]

    Ron
     
  9. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20 New Member

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    Hi Pauline-you wrote
    Gaps,
    We know that the NT Christians were meeting on the first day of the week, 1 Cor 16,2.

    Just read that scripture.YIKES!
    Are you saying thats the reason people changed one of GODS 10 commandments.

    MATT.15[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
     
  10. Pauline

    Pauline New Member

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    Gaps,
    I am saying that Jesus Christ had the authority to change the day from the seventh day to the first day of the week.

    And He delegated His authority to the twelve apostles, see Mt 28,19-20. And they used that authority to make the first day of the week, the day of His Resurrection, their day for worship, the Lord's Day.

    This is attested to in the writing of the earliest Christians, ones who knew and learned from the apostles.

    Pauline
     
  11. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20 New Member

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    Hi Pauline
    If you believe the bible and what Jesus said you would know HE didnt rise on a sunday morning.

    JONAS-3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS

    MATT.12[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and
    there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:[40] For as Jonas was three days and three
    nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Son of man-3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth
    Does good Friday afternoon till ishtar (easter) morning=3 days and 3 nights

    MARK 16[1] And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had
    bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

    These women bought sweet spices after the sabbath was past(the high day passover sabbath)JOHN 19[31]

    LUKE 23[56] And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

    These same women prepared spices and then rested the sabbath day(Gods 4th commandment)
    How could these women prepare spices and rest the sabbath if they didnt buy spices till after the sabbath had past?
    You guessed it! There were 2 sabbaths!

    JOHN 19 [14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews,
    Behold your King![15] But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him.
    (These 2 scriptures are just more proof that the first of these sabbaths was the high passover sabbath)
    JOHN 19[31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross
    on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

    MARK 15 [40] There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;[41] (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him ;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.[42] And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,[43] Joseph of Arimathaea, and honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.[44] And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.[45] And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.[46] And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.[47] And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
    (These 2 scriptures are proof that the women that bought the spices didnt buy spices the day Christ was crucified)
    (They were there when Christ was crucified and there when laid in his tomb)
    MATT.27[54] Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.[55] And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:[56] Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.[57] When the even was come, there came
    a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:[58] He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.[59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped
    it in a clean linen cloth,[60] And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.[61] And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.[62] Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
     
  12. Pauline

    Pauline New Member

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    Gaps,
    Three days in the language of the Jews of that day included parital days. So there was part of a day on the sixth day, all of the seventh day and part of a day on the first day. Three days is how they would state it.

    Pauline

    [ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Pauline ]
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAPS119X20:

    If you believe the bible and what Jesus said you would know HE didnt rise on a sunday morning.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If you believe the Bible you would know that Jesus did rise on a Sunday morning.

    Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
     
  14. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20 New Member

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    Dhk-yes HE had already risen then.But how long before had HE risen.You do know the sabbath ends sundown on saturday.

    MATT.28 [1] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
    [2] And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
    [3] His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
    [4] And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
    [5] And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
    [6] He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
     
  15. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20 New Member

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    Hi Pauline-Happy new year

    MARK 16[1] And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had
    bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

    These women bought sweet spices after the sabbath was past(the high day passover sabbath)JOHN 19[31]

    LUKE 23[56] And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

    How do you explain the 2 sabbath days?Scripture says they bought the spices after the sabbath had past and in Luke it says they prepared the spices and rested the sabbath.They couldnt prepare them until they had them.
     
  16. Pauline

    Pauline New Member

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    Gaps, I don't see any problem there. Christ was crucified on the sixth day of the week and placed in the tomb. They rested on the sabbath. Then they bought the spices after the sabbath ended which would have been at sundown, right?

    Scripture says it was the morning of the first day of the week when they went to the tomb.
    Pauline
     
  17. Gloria1

    Gloria1 New Member

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    a

    [ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Gloria1 ]
     
  18. Gloria1

    Gloria1 New Member

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    Hi Pauline, just saw you here and wished to say happy New Year to you.

    I like it best that Christ died on Friday and rose on Sunday the seventh day of the week. It is called Sunday to remind us of the everlasting day on which evening did not follow the day and hence Easter is always celebrated for two days beginning on Sunday and extending into Monday because evening did not follow the day. This follows after the seventh day of creation when evening did not follow the day.

    Gloria[/QB][/QUOTE]
     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAPS119X20:
    Dhk-yes HE had already risen then.But how long before had HE risen.You do know the sabbath ends sundown on saturday.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I quoted you Mark 16:9 because it of all verses shows quite clearly that it was on the first day of the week that he arose. If the KJV is too confusing for you take a look in a couple of other translations:

    Mr 16:9
    ¶ Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Word English Bible)

    ¶ Now when he had risen very early, the first [day] of the week, he appeared first to Mary of Magdala, out of whom he had cast seven demons. (Darby's Translation)

    ---These translations indicate very clearly that he arose very early on the first day of the week. You argument is with Scripture.
    DHK
     
  20. Pauline

    Pauline New Member

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    Gloria,
    Happy New Year to you too.
    Pauline
     
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