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KEEPING G THE LAW -is not an OPTION!
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
I made a statement previously in this thread, to the effect that I wanted to be identified with those individuals in Scripture, or in other words, Biblical personalities who are identified as godly, having faith, and righteous, and wondered how many of you agreed that these were good ones to be seen as 'Biblical heroes'. Bob made some response to this, but so far has been the only one. Would any others agree that these are good examples to be associated with? Just asking, for no one else seemed to notice. I'd appreciate any responses to this. It may seem slightly off topic, I agree, for the moment, but I'll bring it back, I promise.
In His grace,
Ed
In His grace,
Ed
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Hi Brother Bob,
Thanks for the link. I read all your comments but just glanced at all the references. Very interesting indeed. As time permits, we are bound to have some interesting discussions.
John said, 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” It would seem more in keeping with truth to say, all have sinned, than to make the law impossible to keep. One might say, all have violated the law, yet that is a far cry from saying the law is impossible to keep. If not one man ever kept the law, that in no wise proves the impossibility of keeping it, any more than if no one has ever climbed a mountain proves that it cannot be climbed.
Thanks for the link. I read all your comments but just glanced at all the references. Very interesting indeed. As time permits, we are bound to have some interesting discussions.
John said, 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” It would seem more in keeping with truth to say, all have sinned, than to make the law impossible to keep. One might say, all have violated the law, yet that is a far cry from saying the law is impossible to keep. If not one man ever kept the law, that in no wise proves the impossibility of keeping it, any more than if no one has ever climbed a mountain proves that it cannot be climbed.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Hi Ed,
Your post hits a hot button with me. Our Pastor likes to stand before the congregation and make statements like “We are all full of sin.” He must think this is being humble. I see it as a direct affront (although innocently)to the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives to make us new creatures. We are not just the same old sinners we were although blinded to the eyes of God via Christ’s atonement. “Old things are passed away, and behold all things are made new.” “1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” Ga 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.”
My hearts desire is that I might be found in the company of the saints as you pointed out, in this present world as well as in the world to come.
Your post hits a hot button with me. Our Pastor likes to stand before the congregation and make statements like “We are all full of sin.” He must think this is being humble. I see it as a direct affront (although innocently)to the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives to make us new creatures. We are not just the same old sinners we were although blinded to the eyes of God via Christ’s atonement. “Old things are passed away, and behold all things are made new.” “1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” Ga 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.”
My hearts desire is that I might be found in the company of the saints as you pointed out, in this present world as well as in the world to come.
Gerhard,
I said...
I'm asking...are the elect the "whosoeverwills"?
The only other option is that every person who is born again is sitting somewhere as an unbeliever. Then, they go into a deep coma. Then, God places belief in their heart. Then, they come out of the coma and say "Hey! I'm a believer in Jesus Christ now! How did that happen?"
If you DO NOT believe that what I just posted happens, then you have no choice but to acknowledge that the elect are the "whosoeverwills".
And since that MUST be true, you guys who are so robust in your zeal for calvinism need to stop acting like arminians are some kind of heretics or something just for seeing things differently...as God told us to expect in Romans 14 and other passages.
They are your brothers and sisters and "comrades in arms"...not your enemies.
God bless,
Mike
I said...
And you said...
I'm not argueing against any of that.
I'm asking...are the elect the "whosoeverwills"?
The only other option is that every person who is born again is sitting somewhere as an unbeliever. Then, they go into a deep coma. Then, God places belief in their heart. Then, they come out of the coma and say "Hey! I'm a believer in Jesus Christ now! How did that happen?"
If you DO NOT believe that what I just posted happens, then you have no choice but to acknowledge that the elect are the "whosoeverwills".
And since that MUST be true, you guys who are so robust in your zeal for calvinism need to stop acting like arminians are some kind of heretics or something just for seeing things differently...as God told us to expect in Romans 14 and other passages.
They are your brothers and sisters and "comrades in arms"...not your enemies.
God bless,
Mike
Jacob Dahlen
New Member
no, and nither is your hypocrisy....
Brother Bob
New Member
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Isn't there a 20 page limit for all forums?
Brother Bob
New Member
Can any of you identify with me? I just planted some cucumber plants. I first had to take wheelbarrow and go to neighbors house to get some cow manure (fertilizer).
Then I clean out a spot in garden, dug some holes and filled halfway with manure, cover with dirt then put in the cucumber plants. I then put more dirt and topped off with more manure. I almost guarntee their success but waiting on God to give the increase. Oh, I did water them also. 
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Kinda like this?
1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow.
A seed can die in the ground...
But, with out the Life of God it will stay dead?
SMM
1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow.
A seed can die in the ground...
But, with out the Life of God it will stay dead?
SMM
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Hmm "Created unto Good Works that we should WALK in them" Brother Bob?
"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" Brother Bob? (instead of "If you KEEP My Commandments then one day you will be good enough for the Gospel").
God still does the miracles - but our role is STILL to obey rather than rebel against Him - so God "never did" become the "author of rebellion against His OWN commandments" as much as "some" had hoped He Abolished them.
"Do we then ABOLISH the LAW of God by our Faith? Certainly NOT! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will ENTER but HE WHO DOES..."
I agree with you 100%
In Christ,
Bob
"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" Brother Bob? (instead of "If you KEEP My Commandments then one day you will be good enough for the Gospel").
God still does the miracles - but our role is STILL to obey rather than rebel against Him - so God "never did" become the "author of rebellion against His OWN commandments" as much as "some" had hoped He Abolished them.
"Do we then ABOLISH the LAW of God by our Faith? Certainly NOT! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will ENTER but HE WHO DOES..."
I agree with you 100%
In Christ,
Bob
yeah. it will stay dead - just like the dry bones and Ezekiel? or was it elijah? i think i should read more of that...
and i think its in ezekiel where the angel leads him into the river up to where he had to eventually swim - and then led him back to the shore and said that if the tree is beside the water - it will grow immensly.
is that right?
and i think its in ezekiel where the angel leads him into the river up to where he had to eventually swim - and then led him back to the shore and said that if the tree is beside the water - it will grow immensly.
is that right?
Well spiritually speaking, I think that alot of Christians think that they dont have to actually "do" anything. But the Bible says "we are laborers together with God".Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Can any of you identify with me? I just planted some cucumber plants. I first had to take wheelbarrow and go to neighbors house to get some cow manure (fertilizer).Then I clean out a spot in garden, dug some holes and filled halfway with manure, cover with dirt then put in the cucumber plants. I then put more dirt and topped off with more manure. I almost guarntee their success but waiting on God to give the increase. Oh, I did water them also.
We actually have to do our part and God will do His.
Claudia
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Did I forget to post this again?
Silly me!
Yes, lets let the scriptures speak for themselves.
Christ said that HIS commandment and the Father’s Commandment are one and the same
Is it any wonder that Paul writes
God is not "calling for rebellion against His Law" as many Christians today "suppose".
Nor is He "abolishing His law" so that only the lost are guilty of breaking it - but the saved can freely transgress and in fact are commanded not to regard it at all. Rather God declares that the name of God is profaned among the wicked by the breaking of His law among the saints. (in Romans 2)
==================================================
But some have argued that these saints under persecution keeping God’s commandments are a select few – and not really the larger group – of all Christians – in God’s planning. Is that true?
Isaiah 66 makes it clear regarding the “New Heavens and New Earth” also identified in Rev 20 -- “From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to Worship”
How can Christ the Creator call for ALL mankind to honor Sabbath as a day of Worship like that in the New Earth? Surely the Sabbath will NOT be for all mankind since in fact it WAS only for the Jews – correct?
Christ the Creator addresses the point head-on
“The Sabbath WAS MADE for Mankind” Mark 2:27
From the very “making” of Christ the Creator’s Holy Day – it was “made for Mankind”
Ok – so “when did Christ the Creator MAKE it?”
Notice - Christ the Creator gave mankind the 7-day week in Gen 2:3. For it was ” Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made”. A 7-day week - not a 6-day week for mankind. Christ the Creator makes his holy 7th day memorial of His creative action in making mankind – “for mankind” when he MAKES it “holy” – sanctified in Gen 2:3 before the fall of mankind.
When God speaks directly to His people in Exodus 20 and summarizes that same Gen 1-2:3 event notice what Christ the Creator says of His own Holy day – Made Holy at HIS making of this planet and life on this planet – and mankind.
Exodus 20:8-11 summary of the Creation week "event" shows it to have been made holy, sanctified and blessed by virtue of God’s own act of resting – that “alone” is given as the basis for the command. The commandment is in the format “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy…For in Six days God…. Therefore He Blessed, sanctified and made holy the Seventh day”.
Here it is in full as – God framed it at Sinai speaking directly to the People of God, He said
Silly me!
Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”.
Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”. No wonder Paul says --
So lets see. The law will not change in even the minutest way, till heaven and earth pass. Anyone who breaks the law, and teaches others to do so, will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Thinking about committing sin is now just like actually committing the sin. Ah, the law has been magnified. Christ came and fulfilled the law, observing all of it’s commands, even in thought, not just action.
Yes, lets let the scriptures speak for themselves.
Christ quotes from the 3rd commandment for the statement above.
Christ said that HIS commandment and the Father’s Commandment are one and the same
Notice that John promotes this theme not only with his recording the pre-cross statements of Christ the hCreator – but also the post –cross teaching.
Christ condemns those who would break the Commandments of God for the sake of man-made tradition –
Christ’s followers continue to keep the Sabbath commandment after His command that they should “Love Me and Keep My Commandments” John 14:15 (quoting from the 3rd commandment in Exodus 20)
Why do the Gospel writers take such care to teach us what Christ commanded them?
Notice that John does not try to “divide God” as if God’s commandments are not Christ’s
As for Law and Grace -- Pauls words in Romans 2:13-16 come to mind relative to "justification".
Here the "New Covenant" promise of the "Law written on the heart" is clearly seen.
Is it any wonder that Paul writes
And James 2 tells us to live and act as those "Who are to be judged by God's Law of Liberty".
God is not "calling for rebellion against His Law" as many Christians today "suppose".
Nor is He "abolishing His law" so that only the lost are guilty of breaking it - but the saved can freely transgress and in fact are commanded not to regard it at all. Rather God declares that the name of God is profaned among the wicked by the breaking of His law among the saints. (in Romans 2)
==================================================
But some have argued that these saints under persecution keeping God’s commandments are a select few – and not really the larger group – of all Christians – in God’s planning. Is that true?
Isaiah 66 makes it clear regarding the “New Heavens and New Earth” also identified in Rev 20 -- “From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to Worship”
How can Christ the Creator call for ALL mankind to honor Sabbath as a day of Worship like that in the New Earth? Surely the Sabbath will NOT be for all mankind since in fact it WAS only for the Jews – correct?
Christ the Creator addresses the point head-on
“The Sabbath WAS MADE for Mankind” Mark 2:27
From the very “making” of Christ the Creator’s Holy Day – it was “made for Mankind”
Ok – so “when did Christ the Creator MAKE it?”
Notice - Christ the Creator gave mankind the 7-day week in Gen 2:3. For it was ” Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made”. A 7-day week - not a 6-day week for mankind. Christ the Creator makes his holy 7th day memorial of His creative action in making mankind – “for mankind” when he MAKES it “holy” – sanctified in Gen 2:3 before the fall of mankind.
When God speaks directly to His people in Exodus 20 and summarizes that same Gen 1-2:3 event notice what Christ the Creator says of His own Holy day – Made Holy at HIS making of this planet and life on this planet – and mankind.
Exodus 20:8-11 summary of the Creation week "event" shows it to have been made holy, sanctified and blessed by virtue of God’s own act of resting – that “alone” is given as the basis for the command. The commandment is in the format “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy…For in Six days God…. Therefore He Blessed, sanctified and made holy the Seventh day”.
Here it is in full as – God framed it at Sinai speaking directly to the People of God, He said
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