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KEEPING G THE LAW -is not an OPTION!
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
Brother Bob
New Member
I believe in Keeping the Commandments but it still takes the blood of Christ to save us and if you love Him then you are saved and according to Him, you will keep His Commandments for they are in your heart and your mind.
Heavenly..... quoted a Scripture I missed all these years that shows where Apostle Paul kept the Law before Grace.
Philippians, chapter 3
"4": Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
"5": Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
"6": Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Guess we don't know them all.
Heavenly..... quoted a Scripture I missed all these years that shows where Apostle Paul kept the Law before Grace.
Philippians, chapter 3
"4": Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
"5": Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
"6": Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Guess we don't know them all.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Actually there is a "sequence" of texts starting in Acts 21 Where Paul repeatedly asserts that post-cross HE is STILL observing ALL the ordinances and even CUSTOMS of the Jews!Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Heavenly..... quoted a Scripture I missed all these years that shows where Apostle Paul kept the Law before Grace.
Philippians, chapter 3
"4": Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
"5": Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
"6": Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Guess we don't know them all.[/QB]
Pretty amazing actually!
In Christ,
Bob
Brother Bob
New Member
ED;
I think you missing what we are saying. We feel we are free from the Law through the body of Christ. (We don't do those things anymore so therefore we are free.) Does that make void the Law, God forbid, but it establishes the Law to the sinner and ungodly. Is this saying we can now break the Commandments? No! for to do so is sin but we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. I think some miss the point of what we are saying and as soon as you mention the Law they think, well they believe we still under the Law Covenant and that in no way is what we are saying at all. We are saying the Law is still Holy, Just and Good but only if you don't break them. If you break them then we are saying it is the Law of sin and death for to break the Law certainly is not Holy, Just and Good. At least what I am saying is if you break the Law then it is sure sign you are still under the Law. If you keep the Commandments as the Lord said, If you love me you will keep my Commandments well then I am saying you are "free" from the Law because you just don't do those things anymore.
I think you missing what we are saying. We feel we are free from the Law through the body of Christ. (We don't do those things anymore so therefore we are free.) Does that make void the Law, God forbid, but it establishes the Law to the sinner and ungodly. Is this saying we can now break the Commandments? No! for to do so is sin but we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. I think some miss the point of what we are saying and as soon as you mention the Law they think, well they believe we still under the Law Covenant and that in no way is what we are saying at all. We are saying the Law is still Holy, Just and Good but only if you don't break them. If you break them then we are saying it is the Law of sin and death for to break the Law certainly is not Holy, Just and Good. At least what I am saying is if you break the Law then it is sure sign you are still under the Law. If you keep the Commandments as the Lord said, If you love me you will keep my Commandments well then I am saying you are "free" from the Law because you just don't do those things anymore.
Brother Bob
New Member
I knew that Paul had kept the Law for he was taught to the letter of the Law but that included all of the Law Covenant and not just the Commandments, if I have it correctly. I just had missed that particular Scripture and glad he pointed it out to me.
FREE FROM THE PENALTY OF THE LAW BECAUSE YOU DONT BREAK IT ANYMORE, YOU WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND ALLOW THE SPIRIT TO PRODUCE ITS FRUITS IN YOU
Do you understand now that when we crucify our sin,,, crucify the flesh... and begin walking in the Spririt... producing the fruits of the Spirit (love, defined in the Bible as the ten commandments -Romans 13:8-10) - that THEN we are no longer "Under the CONDEMNATION OF that law"? Why? because... Galatians 5 verse 22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
There IS NO LAW against love! Love IS the Law, the Law IS love! so when we begin keeping the law, THEN we are no longer "under the condemnation of the law of sin and death" you see? Why? BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER VIOLATING THAT LAW!
Do you understand now that when we crucify our sin,,, crucify the flesh... and begin walking in the Spririt... producing the fruits of the Spirit (love, defined in the Bible as the ten commandments -Romans 13:8-10) - that THEN we are no longer "Under the CONDEMNATION OF that law"? Why? because... Galatians 5 verse 22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
There IS NO LAW against love! Love IS the Law, the Law IS love! so when we begin keeping the law, THEN we are no longer "under the condemnation of the law of sin and death" you see? Why? BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER VIOLATING THAT LAW!
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Gekko,
That reminds me of Traffic Laws...
Most good drivers don't get tickets because most police don't rigidly enforce *all* the laws on the books...
Speeding ans weaving in traffic are the most common ticketed violations...
But, if you actually read the traffic Codes you quickly learn there are dozens of laws on the books that you *can* be written for violating that most drivers aren't even aware of...
Now, do I want to share the road with the cop who attempts to enforce the letter of every traffic Law...
Or, do I want to share the road with the cop that excersizes Grace and Restraint?
There is actually a law that requires you to drive straight down the center of your lane...
That means that if you drive too close to the verge of either lane edge marking you could get a ticket...
Whether you actually leave the lane or touch the markings!
Sounds like some churches I've visited.
Guess which ones I don't return to?
SMM
That reminds me of Traffic Laws...
Most good drivers don't get tickets because most police don't rigidly enforce *all* the laws on the books...
Speeding ans weaving in traffic are the most common ticketed violations...
But, if you actually read the traffic Codes you quickly learn there are dozens of laws on the books that you *can* be written for violating that most drivers aren't even aware of...
Now, do I want to share the road with the cop who attempts to enforce the letter of every traffic Law...
Or, do I want to share the road with the cop that excersizes Grace and Restraint?
There is actually a law that requires you to drive straight down the center of your lane...
That means that if you drive too close to the verge of either lane edge marking you could get a ticket...
Whether you actually leave the lane or touch the markings!
Sounds like some churches I've visited.
Guess which ones I don't return to?
SMM
yah. exactly SMM.
the way i look at the "least of these commandments" (bible says Matthew 5:19 - Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.")
is that we do these "lease commandments" out of respect - out of our fear of the Lord - which is the beginning of wisdom.
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
the way i look at the "least of these commandments" (bible says Matthew 5:19 - Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.")
is that we do these "lease commandments" out of respect - out of our fear of the Lord - which is the beginning of wisdom.
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Gekko,
As I said somewhere else...
I do not keep the law to be Saved, Righteous or be Justified...
I do the thing contained in the law because I am Saved, Righteous and Justified...
I has also added, based on Galatians 3-5 that if you
get the order wrong you perish
get the order right you live
I think we are very close to being on the same track. (Hopefully going in the same direction!
)
SMM
As I said somewhere else...
I do not keep the law to be Saved, Righteous or be Justified...
I do the thing contained in the law because I am Saved, Righteous and Justified...
I has also added, based on Galatians 3-5 that if you
get the order wrong you perish
get the order right you live
I think we are very close to being on the same track. (Hopefully going in the same direction!
)SMM
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
I see a whole minefield in your question.
And, I am not at all sure if I am up to answering it succinctly, if at all...
I thought that this definition of law was interesting.
It's from the American Heritage Dictionary.
Law:n. 1. A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.
Normally when we speak of Law in a theological setting we immediately think of the OT concept of Law where it was a hard fast 'Rule of Law' whereby people found in violation were summarily executed...
However, with the New Covenant we had a change of the Priesthood and the Covenant changed as well...
The law we now live by is tempered by Grace...
We are no longer guranteed swift and sure execution for any and all infractions...
And, while all of the Old is contained in the New it is packaged in an entirely different way...
The standard is not the fine line interpretation of a Written Legal Code but the intent of the heart.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
This New Law can only be written on New Hearts.
The Hearts of a New Creation in Christ Jesus.
Because only a heart Motivated by God's Love can comprehend the New Law...
Therefore, the New Law is not something that needs to be enforced because it is something that is desired to be followed...
Not a "Have To". But, a "Want To"...
This, IMHO, is one of the methods we can use to
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
For if the Love of Christ, tested by the desire and intent of the Heart, is not shed abroad in one's heart they are none of Christ's...
Does this convoluted answer help at all?
SMM
it helps yes SMM. (though i dont know what convoluted means... i mean - im only 18.5yrs into this earth life...haha)
i think i tend to lean to believe that we both "have to" and "want to" follow the law.
i'll try to explain - the reason we have to is because if we dont - we don't love Christ fully "if ye love me keep my commandments" i notice it doesn't say 'if ye love me you should want to keep my commandments' in fact - Jesus right there commands us to keep his commandments if we love him. right?
but also the reason for "want to" is that - because we love him (because he first loved us and paid the fine that we couldn't)
im going to post a bit of an anecdote from ray comfort explaining this "want to" stuff:
"In the book Hell’s Best Kept Secret, we give an illustration of a speedster who drove through a town at a dangerous
speed of 120 mph. He was drunk, there was no law against speeding, so the town council gathered and passed a
law stating that 60 mph was the maximum speed, and any transgressors would be fined $100 for every mph over
the speed limit. The speedster comes back. He’s apprehended by the law. He stands in front of the judge, who
was his own father, the town’s only judge. He was proclaimed guilty. He had no money, no words of defense, he
couldn’t raise the money for the $6000 fine, so he was thrust into prison. As he waited in prison, his father arrived,
opened the door and told his son that he had sold all his goods to raise the $6000, he paid the fine himself, and that
he was free to go.
Now, after such a display of love, such sacrifice on behalf of the father, what would the son’s attitude be to the law?
Well, firstly, the law has been satisfied. As soon as the fine was paid, he was free to go. He could smile at the law.
The judge could say, “you’re free.” The law had no demand on him whatsoever because of the sacrifice and
payment of the father. The law was satisfied.
And what’s his reaction to the father? What is his attitude? Well, he’s filled with gratitude at such sacrifice and a
brokenness that his father would do such a thing for him despite his transgression. And now he lives in honor of
the father. He wants to live for the father’s will.
Listen to the attitude of a believer to the Law. Romans 7:4 again, “Wherefore my brethren you also are become
dead to the Law by the body of Christ.” There was the father’s sacrifice. That’s what appeased God’s Law. “Christ
redeemed us from the curse of the Law being made a curse for us.” “You are become dead to the Law by the body
of Christ.” The Law has no demand upon the believer. “There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.” “That you should be married to another, even Him who is raised
from the dead, that you should bring forth fruit unto God.”
So the true believer brings forth the fruit of a new lifestyle, a lifestyle that is pleasing in the sight of Almighty God. If
we are rooted and grounded in Christ, it should be evident. Jesus said, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He
that abides in Me and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit.” Colossians 1, speaking of the gospel, says “the
gospel brings forth fruit in the believer.” "
This message was first preached in 1983. True and False Conversion is non-copyrighted, duplication is encouraged.
www.LivingWaters.com – Living Waters Publications, P.O. Box 1172, Bellflower, CA 90706 – Order line: 1-800-437-1893
like you said - the "new law" (i dont know what that means... but anyways) is something that is desired to be followed - by those who are true christians. not by the goats - the lukewarm or the cold.
one may think it may be needed to be enforced to those who are goats - lukewarm - or cold... but if they had repented truthfully - and had the fruits of a true believer - they would desire to do the things of God in the first place.
i think we are on the same track here... maybe?
gek.
i think i tend to lean to believe that we both "have to" and "want to" follow the law.
i'll try to explain - the reason we have to is because if we dont - we don't love Christ fully "if ye love me keep my commandments" i notice it doesn't say 'if ye love me you should want to keep my commandments' in fact - Jesus right there commands us to keep his commandments if we love him. right?
but also the reason for "want to" is that - because we love him (because he first loved us and paid the fine that we couldn't)
im going to post a bit of an anecdote from ray comfort explaining this "want to" stuff:
"In the book Hell’s Best Kept Secret, we give an illustration of a speedster who drove through a town at a dangerous
speed of 120 mph. He was drunk, there was no law against speeding, so the town council gathered and passed a
law stating that 60 mph was the maximum speed, and any transgressors would be fined $100 for every mph over
the speed limit. The speedster comes back. He’s apprehended by the law. He stands in front of the judge, who
was his own father, the town’s only judge. He was proclaimed guilty. He had no money, no words of defense, he
couldn’t raise the money for the $6000 fine, so he was thrust into prison. As he waited in prison, his father arrived,
opened the door and told his son that he had sold all his goods to raise the $6000, he paid the fine himself, and that
he was free to go.
Now, after such a display of love, such sacrifice on behalf of the father, what would the son’s attitude be to the law?
Well, firstly, the law has been satisfied. As soon as the fine was paid, he was free to go. He could smile at the law.
The judge could say, “you’re free.” The law had no demand on him whatsoever because of the sacrifice and
payment of the father. The law was satisfied.
And what’s his reaction to the father? What is his attitude? Well, he’s filled with gratitude at such sacrifice and a
brokenness that his father would do such a thing for him despite his transgression. And now he lives in honor of
the father. He wants to live for the father’s will.
Listen to the attitude of a believer to the Law. Romans 7:4 again, “Wherefore my brethren you also are become
dead to the Law by the body of Christ.” There was the father’s sacrifice. That’s what appeased God’s Law. “Christ
redeemed us from the curse of the Law being made a curse for us.” “You are become dead to the Law by the body
of Christ.” The Law has no demand upon the believer. “There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.” “That you should be married to another, even Him who is raised
from the dead, that you should bring forth fruit unto God.”
So the true believer brings forth the fruit of a new lifestyle, a lifestyle that is pleasing in the sight of Almighty God. If
we are rooted and grounded in Christ, it should be evident. Jesus said, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He
that abides in Me and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit.” Colossians 1, speaking of the gospel, says “the
gospel brings forth fruit in the believer.” "
This message was first preached in 1983. True and False Conversion is non-copyrighted, duplication is encouraged.
www.LivingWaters.com – Living Waters Publications, P.O. Box 1172, Bellflower, CA 90706 – Order line: 1-800-437-1893
like you said - the "new law" (i dont know what that means... but anyways) is something that is desired to be followed - by those who are true christians. not by the goats - the lukewarm or the cold.
one may think it may be needed to be enforced to those who are goats - lukewarm - or cold... but if they had repented truthfully - and had the fruits of a true believer - they would desire to do the things of God in the first place.
i think we are on the same track here... maybe?
gek.
Brother Bob
New Member
Oh Spiritual Mad Mannnnnnnnnnnnn
I know you are mad at me and dont want to talk to me, but in your last post, the things you said arent any different than what I believe.
So why is it that you have such a dislike of Seventh Day Adventists? I deserve to know since you have made an attack against us.
So come on, please answer and let me know, I seriously would like to understand.
Claudia
I know you are mad at me and dont want to talk to me, but in your last post, the things you said arent any different than what I believe.
So why is it that you have such a dislike of Seventh Day Adventists? I deserve to know since you have made an attack against us.
So come on, please answer and let me know, I seriously would like to understand.
Claudia