Kerry and Murtha-Birds of a Feather...

Then perhaps you can help him offer evidence. Thus far he has yet to give us anything.......

Regards,
BiR

 

Then perhaps you can help him offer evidence. Thus far he has yet to give us anything.......

Regards,
BiR </font>[/QUOTE]I don't need to do so. He already has. That's one reason he has credibility.

 

Oops, there goes yours.
Carpro has not done anything of the sort, and everyone can see that.

Regards,
BiR

 

Oops, there goes yours.
Carpro has not done anything of the sort, and everyone can see that.

Regards,
BiR </font>[/QUOTE]No, not everyone sees it the same way.

Please try to understand the point of the original posting first and then the comments made about it.

I think you're questioning our credibility because you don't agree with the questions much less any conclusions about them.

 

"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

This was Jack Murtha's response to CNSNews.
The original story detailed the bitterness that his rivals have against Murtha. I am sure the story has some truths to it but for the most part it is just garbage in and garbage out and in the long run the CNSNews news story will do very little to distract the public from supporting Jack Murtha and his efforts to bring our over worked troops home.They have done so much but these brave fighting men are not machines , they do wear down and are not easily replaced.

 

I've heard this line of thinking before a long time ago! The premise is that because our troops are dying and being injured we should withdraw and that "those" people should fight their own war. Yes, I remember that line!

The moment we decide to go to war we must be ready, willing, and able to sustain casualties. Our military has no problem accepting that. They don't want to die but they're ready, willing, and able to carry out the mission on our behalf with that ever present knowledge that they may suffer great loss doing it. They do so because we ask them - demand them - to do so to protect all that we've fought so hard to gain. I had no problem with that as a soldier and neither do those still in uniform today. They are tired of the fight but they'll keep going at it so long as people here want them to do so. My father, like many men of his generation, spent four years in a war without ever coming home. He'd have spent four more if that's what it took to defeat our enemies of that time. Today's troops are no different provided our nation truly supports their cause as well as their deeds. Murtha should know that! Most veterans do understand it.

The Iraqi people are fighting their war in greater degree as every day passes. We've worked very hard to train, equip, and assist them in doing so. At times it's been disappointing but at other times it's been encouraging. The troops doing this work see the results and our justly proud of their accomplishments. Iraq is an emerging nation and in that process there is weakness and setbacks. We've got to keep encouraging them not giving up because there are problems along the way. We will do great harm to leave those we've helped get started standing on their own too soon. We've done that before and the result was great tradegy for those to whom we'd promised much but, in the end, left to fend from themselves. It would be better never to start such ventures than to quit them too soon. We've started this one and are well into it so we need to continue it to full completion. We can do it!

Our enemy makes maximum effectiveness of terrorist acts because that's all the capability they have. These attacks are not great tactical successes. With respect to military actions they are minor attacks such as the harassment of supply lines in other wars. They are, of course, very real for those involved and combat is combat on any scale. But these are desperate acts of desperate people who are loosing. Their only wins come from the attention given to them in the news reports and the spreading of a sense of hopelessness among those gullible enough to accept it. Their alleged leader wants to negotiate a truce. Why? Because their winning? I don't think so! They're loosing and they know it. Murtha's comments, while well intentioned, are a win for the enemy. He has accepted the situation to be hopeless and that's just what our terrorist enemy wants. Let's not give them what they want!

We chose to fight our enemy at its roots as well as it branches. Our Congress issued a detailed list of reasons why we needed to do so in their authorization to the President to pursue and continue to pursue this fight. Iraq was a threat to us and its neighbors, was in defiance of international restraints, and ruled by a dangerous regime bent on our destruction and supportive of terrorists sent to do it. We decided, by due process of our laws, to take on Iraq, to destroy its evil regime, to help rebuild Iraq into a more favorable nation for our benefit and theirs, and to continue rooting out terrorists therein and elsewhere. We're not done and Murtha's suggestion that we need to quit now is improper.

 

A lot of troops supporting Murtha are asking questions about the legitimacy and I also understand that there will be die hard supporters of Bush and back him to the hilt. The problem with this war is that it was led with bravado minus intelligent thinking of our President.
God bless our troops for serving irregardless of who is in charge.

If CNSNews had any credability , it would seem obvious that all the major news media would be all over this. All that I have seen is that the Washington post reported that CNSNews reported.
The story has no legs and is pure garbage.

 

The President responded to the will of the people who wanted decisive action taken following 9/11. The Congress immediately followed up with a resolution supporting the war and clearly defining the many reasons for it. The Congress has continued funding it at every appropriation vote. Any time America's elected representatives want to muster up the "courage" and unity to end it they have the power to do so by cutting funding for the bi-annual military budget if nothing else. The truth is the majority are in favor of the war and even some who speak against are as well. They just like complaining about it and accentuating the problems. Most would complain just as much if we'd taken the opposite course of action like sitting back and waiting for the next 9/11 or continuing to sweet talk Saddam into compliance. It would be cries to end the human rights abuses in Iraq we'd be hearing from the same bunch that complain about the war we undertook.

 

The truth is the majority are in favor of the war and even some who speak against are as well.
?????????????????????????????????????????
Show evidence.

Dragoon 68,
I respect your opinions but I have yet to see where most Americans are in favor of the War in Iraq.
Sorry, I know we are drifting offf topic.

 

When I think of news crediblity gaps I think of CBS, ABC, and NBC. To the forefront of my mind quickly comes old Dan Rathernot.

 

Not exactly. We are currently fighting two different wars. In Afghanistan the government at the time of 9/11 was allied with the Taliban and al Qaeda who launched an attack upon our soil. We rightly retaliated. The factions which attacked us are still active there.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but we launched a "pre-emptive attack" on the theory that the government had intentions of attacking us imminently as well as the means to do so (some of the "bad intelligence" concerning nuclear arms was obtained via torture). When we defeated the national army and captured the head of state, we failed to establish civil order and the country was soon flooded with foreign insurgents, and local factions took up arms against each other and many also against us. If it is not now a civil war, it is very close to it.

Now what? We have already accomplished our putative goals in seeing that Iraq has no WMDs, the regime has changed, elections have been held and a constitution has been written (and, not to forget, iron-clad oil contracts have been established) at the cost of mere tens of thousands of civilians - surely a bargain.

So where do we go from here? If our goal now is to establish peace, how is that best done?

What is their cause in Iraq now that Saddam is gone and we've discovered that there were no WMDs and democracy has been established?

Yeah, but on BOTH sides.

Is anyone arguing with this point?

What is completion and how will we recognise it?

Bin Laden's 9/11 attack was not successful? That's news to most.

Whose leader? Bin Laden was never a force in Iraq - he's with the Afghani Arabs.

Or it is a wakeup call to our Iraqi allies that they better get serious about taking over their own country.

This comes AFTER his calls for more troops and armaments were ignored. He said that the war as it is being waged now is unwinnable.

Iraq was a toothless tiger, although it did contribute to the Palestinian widows and orphans fund.

Bent on our destruction? That is so totally bogus...Saddam had no love for the US, but he had no means of doing anything about it. Aluminum tubes, mobile labs, mushroom clouds in 45 mins - these were all bogus, but effective as scare tactics.

What else should we do?

It is entirely proper that this be discussed.

Do you support the swift-boating of Murtha because you disagree with what he said?

 

Could be , but it's still 100 % factual. </font>[/QUOTE]---------------------------------------
(CNSNews)
A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.
------------------------------------
Key word here ALLEGES. So at this moment it is only speculation and not an established truth.
------------------------------------------------
(CNSNews)
"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges).
-------------------------------------------------
Again the word ALLEGED appears and this is reported from a private conversation between Baily and Murtha. Does CNSNews provide any back up on that story?

The story that CNSNews reported is less than 100% factual unless you are referring to an ALLEGED 100% Factual story.

 

I don't agree with you at all. Your analysis and conclusion just doesn't fit with mine.

The reasons for pursuing the war in Iraq were made clear by Congress in their resolution supporting it and by their repeated funding for it. It reflected the will of the American people they represent. The President took action that American wanted him to take. He was courageous enough to do so despite the objections of many foreign nations who didn't have that courage.

Civil order just doesn't come the day after the main battles are finished. In fact, a period of chaos often follows until civil order can be restored. War is chaos. It takes time to restore order and especially so in a country that was previously run by a tyrant. That's why we have a Civil Affairs specialty in our military. That's why a war is only half over when the main fighting ends.

In Iraq we still have a number of terrorists creating problems for the emerging government. It's clear by their targets that their purpose is to disrupt that process and intimidate its participants into giving up. They want us to believe they represent the will of the people but they don't. They're not at all a significant military threat but they are a threat to the will of people here and there who can't see past what's its all about. The only way to defeat them is to stand firm in our goals, not let them intimidate us nor Iraqis, and kill every last one of them we can when the opportunity arrises.

We need to keep right on supporting, training, and helping the Iraqis establish their new democratic government. We need to make it clear by our words and deeds that we're not going anywhere until full success of all our goals are attained. Iraq has the chance to become a strong anchor in that part of the world that should become a friend rather than a foe in the long term war on terrorism.

Murtha advocates quitting but I don't and neither do most Americans. We don't like quitting.

 

Again Dragoon you are living in "La-La land"
do you even read the news??

US audit finds 'spectacular' waste of funds in Iraq

Millions lost in 'chaotic misuse,' while report says many reconstruction projects won't be finished.

By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com

"Spectacular misuse of tens of millions of dollars."
That is what The Australian says an audit by the the US Special Inspector-General for Iraq Reconstruction of the former Coalition Provisional Authority office in Hilla, Iraq, has uncovered. The newspaper says the report details bundles of money stashed in filing cabinets, a US soldier who gambled away thousands of dollars, and stacks of newly minted notes distributed without receipts.

The findings come almost a year after Stuart Bowen, the Inspector-General, found that more than$9 billion of Iraq's oil revenues, which was disbursed in 2004 by the then US-led CPA, could not be accounted for.

The audit, released on Wednesday ... describes a country in the months after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein awash with US dollars and a "wild west" atmosphere where even multi-million-dollar contracts were paid for in cash ...
The huge sums in cash were paid out with little or no supervision and often without any paperwork, the reconstruction spending audit found. The report found problems with almost 2000 contracts worth $US88.1 million.

The New York Times reports that the new audit found problems "in an area that includes half the land mass in Iraq, with new findings in the southern and central provinces of Anbar, Karbala, Najaf, Wasit, Babil, and Qadisiya."

Some of the misuse details in the report: Agents from the inspector general's office found the living and working quarters of American officials "awash in stacks of $100 bills" known as bricks. In another case, a soldier gambled away $40,000 of reconstruction money when he accompanied the Iraq boxing team to the Philippines. One contractor received more than $100,000 to completely refurbish an Olympic pool but only polished the pumps. In a more tragic case, three people plunged to their deaths in a Hilla hospital elevator that had been rebuilt and improperly certified as safe.

"What's sad about it is that, considering the destruction in the country, with looting and so on, we needed every dollar for reconstruction," said Wayne White, a former State Department official whose responsibilities included Iraq from 2003 to 2005, and who is now at the Middle East Institute, a research organization. Instead, Mr. White said, large amounts of that money may have been wasted or stolen, with strong indications that the chaos in Hilla might have been repeated at other provisional authority outposts.
Others had a similar reaction. "It does not surprise me at all," said a Defense Department official who worked in Hilla and other parts of the country, who spoke anonymously because he said he feared retribution from the Bush administration. He predicted that similar problems would turn up in the major southern city of Basra and elsewhere in the dangerous desert wasteland of Anbar province. "It's a disaster," the official said of problems with contracting in Anbar.

The BBC reports that the audit said one reason for the accounting system's problems was that "US postwar planning was limited by a desire for secrecy."
There were no detailed, overt preparations for the reconstruction of Iraq in the run-up to the 2003 invasion "to avoid the impression that the US government had already decided on [military] intervention", the report by the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) said. Nevertheless, the US has allocated billions of dollars to rebuilding Iraq, and large amounts have been raised through the sale of Iraqi oil.
An editorial in the Miami Herald notes that "US comptroller David Walter estimated in 2005 that at least $1 billion has been wasted in inefficient spending in Iraq." The Herald writes that this latest report means it's time for Congress to act.
So far, at least four Americans have been arrested in a related investigation involving Iraq reconstruction projects in Hillah, and more arrests are expected. What's needed, however, is better oversight and accounting by a Congress that has been loath to look into irregularities in Iraq, whether it involves policy or the inexcusable mishandling of public funds.
Meanwhile the Times also reports that the Inspector General's office issued a separate audit Thursday showing that the American-financed reconstruction program in Iraq will not finish scores of projects. For example, only 49 of the 136 projects designed to improve Iraq's sanitation and water facilities will be completed, and only 300 of the 415 projects to improve electricity.
"We have gone beyond just the concept of the reconstruction gap and identified the specific impacts of how many projects in the electrical sector and the water sector will not be completed and the reasons why," said Jim Mitchell a spokesman for the [inspector general's] office. "We point out that the dramatic increase in security spending is a part of this as well," Mr. Mitchell said. "Those who planned the reconstruction did not understand at the time the hostile environment in which reconstruction would be taking place."
The Washington Times reports that the report's findings are a setback for the Bush administration, which had counted on "more robust rebuilding across Iraq to help deliver the country from a harsh dictatorship to a prosperous democracy."

Massive waste

The American taxpayer can only take so much...in fact how can a libertarian be for so much waste????

What Dragoon fails to tell you is the cost from his comfortable easy chair ..numbers are rising and evern heard the 2 trillion dollar number..the
American taxpayer will not stand for it.


2 Trillion

 

Oh, it's you again, ASLANSPAL!

Yes, I read the news but it's obviously not the kind marketed for consumers such as you. I prefer more direct sources of information from people who actually know something about what's going on. I avoid the garbage.

Sorry, pal, I still don't agree with you these subjects.

 

This Friend of mine knows exactly whats going on and she would like to interogate you..uh ummm I mean query you.

Oh, I see direct sources...
Who are these so called voices ..uh hum I mean
sources ..could it be...................