Keswick Movement - History?

[The Biblicist]

HP: So your disagreements with myself have been sharp as well. Does that prove either of us have, in reality, sinned???

If it is true that you have sinned in your contentions, stop it.:thumbsup:

There is doctrinal sin (false doctrine) and there is moral sin (attitude and actions) and both are equally condemned as sin in the scriptures. Those who are in doctrinal sin are in error and subject to rebuke and reproof. Those who are violating God's Word in regard to their attitude and/or actions is sin and are subject to reproof and rebuke.

In regard to Paul and Barnabas it was over the worthiness of Mark to come with them. Later, Paul confessed that Mark was worthy for the ministry and asked him to be brought to him.

However, the issue between Paul and Barnabas was far deeper than merely Mark. Mark was merely the straw that broke the camel's back. If you will go back and trace the story of the relationship between Saul and Barnabas, Barnabas was the leader and Saul followed up to a certain point. Look at the order of their names in chapter 14. The order changed when it is said that Saul was filled with the Spirit at a certain point in the story. From that point forward the order changed. Previously it was always Barnabas and Saul but after that point it was Saul and Barnabas.

In discussions that lead to a sharp division there is always the element of pride which God hates above all other sins. Either both are guilty or the one who is wrong and will not repent is guilty.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Biblicist: Your response does not make much sense.....

HP: The truth is that Scripture never states or implies anyone sinned in the instance you mention. Where the testimony of Scripture is silent, we would do well to do the same.

Biblicist: What you say here is totally and wholly absurd. Not One Christian....

HP: Scripture has many instances of individuals declared to be living in a righteous state and where no sin is mentioned of them at all. Enoch, Elijah, Job was declared righteous by God, fearing God and eschewing evil. What about the following testimony of God? Luk 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." The apostle Paul clearly lived a life free from sin in a season of his life, and was smitten in the face for such a testimony at one point. Act 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." Paul testified several times of being made 'free from sin." And before you bring up Romans 7, let me say that that passage clearly spoke of a man's condition, antecedent to salvation, not subsequent to it, if not he was the most confused man in Scripture.

Scripture is replete with passages commanding us to live holy lives before God. That is not simply some imputed righteousness while we go on sinning. God has stated that He has granted to us all the necessary means to live and walk holy before Him. 1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

One needs to exercise caution in such callous disregard of the notion that God ha made a way for believers to daily walk holy before Him, lest they in reality call God's Word absurd by doing so.

Biblicist: I got a better book to read on the subject - the Bible!

HP: Reading your many philosophical comments, it is evident to me Scripture is not the only book you have read in developing your ideas.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Forgive me Biblicist, but I am going to stop our discussion between us for now on this thread, as it is to be centered on the Keswick movement. :thumbs:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It was so sharp they could no longer work together. It caused division between them so sharp they had to part ways.




Your response does not make much sense. Peter sinned as a saved person and required rebuke for that sin. Don't have to read his thoughts as Paul explicitly says he was wrong and so was Barnabas!




What you say here is totally and wholly absurd. Not One Christian has ever or will ever live above sin. Those who think they can are subject to speculation concerning whether they have even had a genuine salvation experience at all. At best, they have no Biblical understanding of what sin is or they would not even make such a foolish boast or invent such a foolish doctrine.



There is not one righteous man (except Christ) who has ever lived or shall live on earth that sinneth not. Those who make such a claim are not merely ignornant of God's Word but have either redefined the standard of righteousnes or redefined the meaning of sin. Sin begins with a wrong motive for whatsoever you do, if it is not "for the glory of God" then it is sin as sin is coming "short of the glory of God" in whatsoever you do.





I got a better book to read on the subject - the Bible!

GE:

Biblicist, you wrangle out blicits. You argue to argue; no more; no purpose, no basis, no direction, aimless. You want yourself heard; that's all.