Kevin Bauder: A Fundamentalist's Education

[agedman]

I'm not sure why reading about a squabble between Baptists over prohibiting singing in worship would affect your TULIP status.

It was the start of those yankee modernists who claim it profitable to have a woman tell them the word of God.

 

[rlvaughn]

Somewhere I posted how an early controversy in Baptist churches was over congregational singing.

With the many on-demand reprints that are out there nowadays, on can find Keach's side at Amazon, in The Breach Repaired in God's Worship: Or Singing of Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs, Proved to Be an Holy Ordinance of Jesus Christ; With an Answer to All Objections. I haven't noticed Marlowe's side being available.

 

[Jerome]

The second part of the Founders article Agedman linked to for support details Marlowe's arguments, many of which it characterizes as "bizarre."

https://founders.org/2018/01/11/the-first-worship-war-among-baptists-part-2/

A sample:

Marlow maintained that the use of pre-written hymns and songs...quenches the Holy Spirit. He was...convinced that examples of singing in the New Testament involved the exercise of an extraordinary special spiritual gift. Since these gifts had ceased after the canonization of Scripture, the examples of singing found in the New Testament did not serve as a valid precedent for congregational singing.

Marlow insisted that congregational singing compromised the purity of the church because it well might include the hosannas of...women...which, according to 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12, are not to utter a single word in the public worship of the church.

While Keach buttressed his case in favor of congregational singing with texts such as Col 3:16 and Eph 5:19-20, Marlow argued that, in each case the “admonishing one another in Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs” of which Paul writes is singing that is merely inward, inaudible and spiritual – not vocal and verbal. Marlow interpreted singing as an inward exercise of the mind and soul.

Marlow, though using Scripture...often abandoned sound reasoning in his arguments....Marlow argues that “when they had sung a hymn” in Matt 26:30, was mistranslated by English translators....A final example of Marlow’s sometimes bizarre argumentation is seen in his relation of hymns to the gift of speaking in tongues....singing...must be as tongues, requiring interpretation.

The Founders writer's conclusion about Marlowe:

[His] case against the use of Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs in corporate worship clearly struck a sour note with Keach and ultimately, to Baptists in general.

 

[Jerome]

Oh, we've gotten very far afield from the OP!

I will be starting a separate thread about Amy Stockton's preaching in the North, South, East, and West.

I encourage Agedman to start a thread on this squabble that arose over prohibiting singing in Baptist churches. It's so fascinating.

 

[Jerome]

So, back to the topic, education.

Interesting how Bauder's conservatism (or fundamentalism) was strengthened while studying at schools that naturally might have led him to be less conservative.

Bro. Vaughn, You made an interesting observation that I think also applies to me. Much of my graduate school has been done in very liberal venues....Harding Graduate School of Religion-one of the Churches of Christ seminaries, Memphis Theological Seminary-an ecumenical seminary of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, and The University of the South's-School of Theology @ Sewanee-the very liberal and left leaning Episcopal Church seminary.

Yes, recall R.C. Sproul went to Pittsburgh Seminary, a PCUSA institution that produced PBS televangelist Fred Rogers. Sproul and Mister Rogers studied there at the same time!

 

[agedman]

Oh, we've gotten very far afield from the OP!

I will be starting a separate thread about Amy Stockton's preaching in the North, South, East, and West.

I encourage Agedman to start a thread on this squabble that arose over prohibiting singing in Baptist churches. It's so fascinating.

I only raised the issue to demonstrate how modernism drove the north into acceptance of what was not Scriptural.

It seems so many completely disregard that women have a place and it is not in the pulpit and definitely not speaking in the assembly.

 

[rlvaughn]

I encourage Agedman to start a thread on this squabble that arose over prohibiting singing in Baptist churches. It's so fascinating.

I'm not Agedman (and may have jumped the gun), but seeing nothing started so far I went ahead and started a thread on the subject. I decided to place it in the Baptist history forum, since this is mostly an historical discussion.

Baptist Music: To Sing or Not To Sing

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I fear you are making the same type of mistake many non-SBC make. You are telescoping two controversies. The debate of singing in the worship service predates (the mid-1700s) the modernist controversy. To gain an insight into what a mid-19th century Northern Baptist held, I suggest you read:

• Francis Wayland's Notes on the Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches written in the 1850s. Wayland gives the reasons for the split of the Triennial Convention.
• Hiscox's New Directory for Baptist Churches also gives a snapshot of the pre-Modernist Northern Baptist movement.

Both are available through Google Books for free.

I only raised the issue to demonstrate how modernism drove the north into acceptance of what was not Scriptural.

 

[agedman]

I fear you are making the same type of mistake many non-SBC make. You are telescoping two controversies. The debate of singing in the worship service predates (the mid-1700s) the modernist controversy. To gain an insight into what a mid-19th century Northern Baptist held, I suggest you read:

• Francis Wayland's Notes on the Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches written in the 1850s. Wayland gives the reasons for the split of the Triennial Convention.
• Hiscox's New Directory for Baptist Churches also gives a snapshot of the pre-Modernist Northern Baptist movement.

Both are available through Google Books for free.

Long before there was the modernist there was the liberal.

The traditional hymn singing of the last 200 years (from the early 1800's) was not that of what was previous for two centuries (from the early 1600's) what the people were used to hearing in comparison to the centuries before that.

For example:
Issac Watts (liberal as he was - or was labeled as being) was first highly criticized for paraphrasing into sensible English rhymes the Psalms. It was not until after his death than a great body of his work in this was actually recognized as beneficial to the Baptist church and more of his work was being incorporated.

In the U.S., following the years of the northern aggression, the hymn singing took on a more vibrant and emotional presentation and with the edition of popular music that was blended by better communications, better cross country travel, better trained music leading, ... the modern music forms took shape. Some tunes reflected the more southernly warmth, and some more of the northern chill, but as the tunes and words were collected and published, a more unified set of hymns became standard. Philip Bliss was concerned in his short time with the direction some of the music used (particularly in the camp meetings and revival meetings) was taking. His discomfort was generally that it was appealing more to the emotions than to the truth of Scriptures.

Imo, his concern was well founded as ultimately folks turned from the Scriptures to accepting the music despite the worldly use. Even now as the typical modern church engages in all manner of showmanship and enhancements, he has been shown correct to have the concerns.

A one well known Dr. of Theology censures his recommendation of hymns based upon a rejection not only on the textual considerations, but also by the use of the meter and patterns of how the poem is put together. (similar thinking as Philip Bliss was early in forming)

In his view, certain rhythmic poetry schemes were generated purely for the amusement and entertainment and used primarily to scorn or demean. To allow such use to be a part of the worship is allowing that which is scornful and demeaning a part of the worship. For example: Think of the rhythm of the running eighth notes of 6/8 meter such as in "Jesus Loves Even Me," put together is the rhythm of "Make Me a Blessing." These would be rejected from both a textual standpoint and from the use of worldly meter scheme.

Now, I am not fully in agreement with his thinking, but it is to show how controversy that may start out as Biblical may soon take on some rather personal views that some might claim as "spiritual discernment."

Personally, I don't see Bliss as agreeing with the extreme this modern person takes, but the sentiment remains very similar.