Kick The Oil Habit And Make Your Own Ethanol

[Andre]

The "greenies" often put more emphasis on the second instruction verses the first - to work it

I do not dispute this.

- and also forget that we no longer live in the Garden of Eden.

But if the very creation is being redeemed as Romans 8 clearly states, then we are still obliged to treat the earth as what it is - a reclamation project on the part of God.

I know we are going over old ground, but I think Romans 8 "reads as she reads" - the creation will be liberated. Why do readers not take it as it stands?

 

[NiteShift]

It would do the oil companies some good to have competition.

It sure would. And it might also cause the OPEC countries to lose some sleep.

 

[LadyEagle]

I was going to close this thread since it is no longer on topic, but instead, I will move it to Other Discussions.

Revelation 21:1:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[LadyEagle]

In the process of moving this thread...

 

[Andre]

I was going to close this thread since it is no longer on topic, but instead, I will move it to Other Discussions.

Revelation 21:1:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

If this verse is supposed to constitute an argument that the world will be destroyed, I do not see how it works unless you basically suggest that Paul was mistaken in Romans 8.

If we are committed to the authority of the Scriptures we cannot do this (although this is actually done all the time). We need to come up with an explanation that is true both for Paul in Romans 8 and for John in Revelation 21. And I suggest that we simply cannot have the earth destroyed without making Paul wrong in Romans 8.

However, the explanation of a renewed and transformed earth works for both Paul and John of Patmos. It is entirely legitimate to read "the old earth passed away" as "the old earth has been radically transformed and reworked". On the other hand, you simply cannot make "the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God" work with the notion that the earth is destroyed.

I submit that the idea that the earth gets destroyed simply does not work scripturally. And trust me, I have only just begun an exploration of the scriptural support for a renewed and re-transformed earth (versus a destroyed earth).

 

[LadyEagle]

The passage in Romans Chapter 8 is speaking of the Rapture of the Church. But if you are a preterist, you don't believe in the Rapture. Are you a preterist, or do I have you confused with someone else?

 

[Andre]

The passage in Romans Chapter 8 is speaking of the Rapture of the Church. But if you are a preterist, you don't believe in the Rapture. Are you a preterist, or do I have you confused with someone else?

I do not even know what a preterist is. How do you make the following mean anything other than that the entire created world will be renewed:

19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[i] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies

I trust your argument is not that "the creation" in verse 22 is the church awaiting rapture. That would seem untenable since Paul uses the phrase "not only so" to clearly distinguish "the creation" from those who are awaiting adoption.

No one would write this: "X has groaning in anticipation. Not only so, X is groaning in anticipation."

Let's be clear: verse 21 states "the creation will be liberated.....". If "the creation" does not refer to the created world, exactly what does it refer to? And why?

 

[billwald]

The real problem with converting every part of everything that grows in dirt to fuel is that in 10 years there will be no topsoil left.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Thanks for advertising this:

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Barak Obama from "The Audacity of Hope"

Let everyone in the world see it and be warned in time. The West is going down fast, and I don't like it at all.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I do not even know what a preterist is. How do you make the following mean anything other than that the entire created world will be renewed:

19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[i] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies

I trust your argument is not that "the creation" in verse 22 is the church awaiting rapture. That would seem untenable since Paul uses the phrase "not only so" to clearly distinguish "the creation" from those who are awaiting adoption.

No one would write this: "X has groaning in anticipation. Not only so, X is groaning in anticipation."

Let's be clear: verse 21 states "the creation will be liberated.....". If "the creation" does not refer to the created world, exactly what does it refer to? And why?

GE:
Andre,
Thank you for a beautiful and inspiring post!

The Scriptures say God wil come to "destroy the destroyers of the earth". Afrikaans, "om die verderwers -'spoilers'- van die aarde te verderwe". Jesus Christ when He comes again - and soon He shall come and delay not - will spoile the spoilers of the earth. Now how godly we may try to live we all partake in the damaging of the earth. May God be merciful on us! Yes, I too believe a literal re-creation of the earth and everything that is in it. Even the elements will melt in that day, and as I see it, Mr Preterist, in that day the New Jerusalem shall descend from heaven and like an ark of Noah shall float on waves of lava over all the face of the earth. From this chaos as in the beginning, God shall re-create his originally intended earth and world of his earth. For God so loved the world .... that he gave his only Son, in fact to save this world of his own creation and save it, from sin and corruptibility ever again.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

We do not know how long ere the Lord will come again and re-create his world. In the meantime we must go on, and we shall have to find an answer to the need after energy very fast.

Has anybody here heard of the 'Helium 3' option? I tell my grand children if I were young today I would go into nuclear physics. Unlike when I was a young man and someone told me, Young man, this -- computers -- is the future. But I thought I could be a better pianist! I could have been Bill Gates, who would know! Now joking to one side, What about this option, Helium 3? Please tell me if anyone know what developments are. Maybe my grand daughters will get interested.