Kim Davis not exactly the poster girl for Godly marriage...

[kyredneck]

Based on the OP the Apostle Paul had no moral right to be an Apostle. He persecuted Christians and delivered them up to death. Who cares if he did all those things before his conversion. He still did them.

In no way am I hammering Scarlett, but, RIGHT ON! What she did before her conversion has no bearing on the sincerity of her beliefs now.

Excellent post.

 

[Reformed]

In no way am I hammering Scarlett, but, RIGHT ON! What she did before her conversion has no bearing on the sincerity of her beliefs now.

Excellent post.

And I was not 'hammering Scarlett' either. In fact, I think a good case could be made that Kim Davis should have resigned her position. Many people have done just that when faced with violating their conscience. I do not think Ms. Davis sinned by holding her ground, it is just that there was another option she could have chosen. As it is she chose to resist. One thing this teaches us is that that the fallout of unrighteous laws will impact Christians. Either Christians will resist, and face the consequences, or they will resign. Either way they will be purged from public service.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Quot vadis?

 

[Revmitchell]

“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” – Martin Luther King, Jr., A Letter From a Birmingham Jail

 

[Revmitchell]

Joe Carter
Acton Institute

The Kim Davis incident shows why the rule of law needs to be combined with the Christian concept of subsidiarity, the tenet that nothing should be done by a larger and more complex organization which can be done as well by a smaller and simpler organization. The state of Kentucky had two ways to deal with an elected official like Davis: impeachment or accommodation of her religious beliefs. Either option would have resolved the issue and established a precedent. Instead, a federal court rushed to intervene and brought in men with guns to throw the clerk in jail—and resolved nothing. Americans need to decide how much longer we’re going to allow judges to circumvent the will of the people.

Joe Carter is a senior editor of the Acton Institute.

 

[Revmitchell]

Albert Mohler, Al Mohler.com, “’In this world you will have trouble’—Welcome to Rowan County”

During the Reformation, both Martin Luther and John Calvin affirmed what was later defined as the “doctrine of lesser magistrates” which held that the tyrannical dictates of a higher authority could be defied by a lesser government authority who acted on conscience in defense of what is right. Lutheranism even added this doctrine to its confessional basis in the Magdeburg Confession (1550).

 

[salzer mtn]

I guess there are two way's of action that a Christian can take if they are a clerk and find themselves in this position. No.1 you can quit the job and say I cannot with good conscience perform the ungodly duties any more. or No. 2 you can stay in the position as Mrs. Davis and go to jail. No.2 will get more attention to the evils of the law we are now under and who knows after this is played out it might bring forth good. It will certainly wake people up to what is happening in our country. I don't know Mrs. Davis personally but I sure hope what she did is her true convictions toward what she really believes and not just wanting attention. I have to ask myself, if the reporters had not been there and this was no national attention case and if she knew from the beginning she would go to jail without any fan fair, would she still have taken a stand. Will Mrs. Davis still stand on her convictions when her lawyers come into her cell and tell her we have done all we can do and she lays on a hard steel cot night after night and the three meals she eats are only fit for a hog to eat, and she only get's visits from her family once a week. Will Mrs. Davis still stand for her convictions when every day her only company will be harden criminals and the seconds seems like minutes and the minutes seems like hours and the hours seems like day's. Will Mrs. Davis still stand when the news cameras are turned off and the reporters find another story.

 

[Aaron]

Kim Davis, the county clerk who will not give out marriage licenses to gay couple because she believes their unions to be immoral and against God's plan for marriage isn't exactly the person we as Christians should emulate.

She says that she is afraid that she will go to hell if she issues these licenses.

She talks the talk, but hasn't walked the walk.

She has been married four times. She gave birth to twins five months after divorcing husband #1 and they were husband #3's biological children, but husband #2 was the man who adopted them as his own.

She's been married twice to her current husband. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...lerk-fighting-gay-marriage-has-wed-four-times

Did you follow that?

Her hypocrisy, in my opinion, is giving the church and Christians a black eye and a blackened reputation.

She was elected as a secular official so she IS the government. It's her secular job to issue secular licenses for a secular government's recognition of what they deem as a secular union. What makes a marriage holy is something between a man and a woman and God - not the government and not a license. The government does not recognize the Biblical definition of marriage.

She is paid to give a piece of paper to a couple showing that the government approves of their union. Her opinion is moot. This is not like the baker who is a private citizen exercising his right to practice his art and craft and express it in whatever manner he chooses. He can absolutely refuse to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple.

She is not a private citizen issuing government marriage licenses. She is an arm of the government - she IS the government.

She should step down or do the secular job. Her personal testimony of her four marriages, including adultery, is causing more harm than her private convictions about gay people.

My convictions are her convictions. The thought of gay marriage being condoned by my government makes me sad, sick, and angry. But her obstinance in light of her OWN mockery of marriage has to be entered into the equation.

Anyone else here glad that S.O. ain't God?

Besides, the assertion that Davis IS the government is ludicrous. Google "Larry Phillips vs Cathy Collings." A social worker was fired for refusing to license a same sex couple as foster parents, and the courts found that his religious freedom was violated.

 

[InTheLight]

I guess there are two way's of action that a Christian can take if they are a clerk and find themselves in this position. No.1 you can quit the job and say I cannot with good conscience perform the ungodly duties any more. or No. 2 you can stay in the position as Mrs. Davis and go to jail. No.2 will get more attention to the evils of the law we are now under and who knows after this is played out it might bring forth good. It will certainly wake people up to what is happening in our country.

I think this is the most effective route for a Christian to take BUT as the OP points out because of her own marriage history this woman is not the best person to lead a protest. Yes, all of this happened before she professed belief, but this will make no difference to the world, in fact it probably plays out as a cynical excuse to the unsaved.

I think taking a stand is the right thing to do because it draws attention to the issue but because of her history she is the wrong person to be standing up for the marriage issue.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And principally because of her past history, she is the exact right person to stand up for our Christian values.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning

Sometime after 3pm (Pacific), I will close this thread. :type:

 

[InTheLight]

And principally because of her past history, she is the exact right person to stand up for our Christian values.

Maybe to us but to others her confession, "yeah, I've been married four times but that was before I was saved" is going to sound like a cop out.

 

[Zaac]

And principally because of her past history, she is the exact right person to stand up for our Christian values.

This is where I get lost. What Christian value is she standing up for?

 

[just-want-peace]

Personally, I believe she should follow as closely as humanly possible to do how she feels God is leading her --- whatever that may be.
This is an issue that concerns God, her & her family; nobody else.
If I were in her position I have no idea right now how I would respond, but when/if the time comes for some similar response from me, I will trust Him to lead me at that time.
I'm not in that situation right now, so God HAS NOT GIVEN ME THE RESOURCES TO HANDLE A SITUATION LIKE THIS.
I would be very careful of being so dogmatic about "what she should have done" because you could be found opposing God. Not a position to take lightly!!!

 

[Alcott]

This is where I get lost. What Christian value is she standing up for?

For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh [Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5].

Now, are you going to change the angle of your argument?

 

[InTheLight]

Personally, I believe she should follow as closely as humanly possible to do how she feels God is leading her --- whatever that may be.
This is an issue that concerns God, her & her family; nobody else.

What? She's an elected public servant. It certainly concerns the people that apply for a marriage license. It concerns the people in the county where she works. At a minimum.

 

[Jerome]

But why in the world is this Kim Douglas lady denying marriage certificates to everybody, rather than just denying the m-m and f-f applicants?

 

[just-want-peace]

What? She's an elected public servant. It certainly concerns the people that apply for a marriage license. It concerns the people in the county where she works. At a minimum.

Sorry, I wasn't clear!
I was referring to her specific reaction to the pressure; did not intend to imply that the situation itself concerned no one else.

 

[Zaac]

For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh [Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5].

Now, are you going to change the angle of your argument?

Why would it? Was that not her belief when she took the job?

Her belief has nothing to do with her job description as it IS a government position. She was hired to do a job and part of that job is to issue marriage licenses. She isn't issuing them to anyone.

She's not doing her job.

Resign.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Zaac, she's an elected official not a "civil service" employee. One could make the argument that she is doing what her constituents elected her to do.

Why would it? Was that not her belief when she took the job?

Her belief has nothing to do with her job description as it IS a government position. She was hired to do a job and part of that job is to issue marriage licenses. She isn't issuing them to anyone.

She's not doing her job.

Resign.