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KJV hate

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M

MB

Well-Known Member
Logos1560 said:
You do not practice what you preach and prove your own accusation.

I have read and used the KJV over 50 years, and I have not been labeled KJV-only. Perhaps I could be considered evidence that proves that you have not seen clearly.
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Your judgement of me proves you don't practice what you preach doesn't it?
MB
 
robycop3

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
TheOldJudge said:
Not to inject myself into a conversation in which I do not belong, but I have received hate (not merely disagreement or alternative preferences) from both saved and unsaved individuals for my use of the 1611 King James Version. (Yes, I know all about the 1769 revision, as well as the 1629, 1638, and 1873 revisions/reformatting. There is a man in my church who publishes and sells high-quality KJV Bibles using only the 1611 text.)

Local Christians in my area from other congregations have scorned our church and its members for using "that old, dumb version" for years. I have talked to multiple individuals through the years when going doorknocking that expressed dislike for our church. Their reason? We use "that relic" or "the old version" that they "do not like." It didn't matter that our church was friendly, had numerous ministries, and was known for its community service and outreach to children and the underprivileged. All that mattered to some was that I and my fellow congregants used the King James Version as our preferred translation of Scripture.

Surprisingly, the unsaved have been even more vitriolic against the King James than the Christians that use modern translations. Just last month, I was confronted by two women of an irreligious status who wanted to know if I "used that King James Bible." My affirmative answer was all it took to elicit a response: "That Bible is terrible! How can you use it? It is just man's opinions. The KJV condemns homosexuality, drunkenness, and talks about men as evil by nature! Obviously it would be just man's opinions; hateful men, at that. God is all love. Look at the other versions. They don't say those things!!!"

'Twas a fun conversation.
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Well, actually, newer versions DO condemn those things, as well as everything else condemned in the KJV.
I am one of the "most vocal" anti-KJVO-Mythers on this board, but I heve several KJV copies, including a repro 1611 AV, complete with all the extratextual material, & a Cambridge Edition, complete with Crown copyright.

What I hate is the KJVO MYTH, which is the false doctrine that the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation. I, & several others, have posted the man-made origin of the current edition of that myth on this very board. Its cultic, dishonest origin proves it's an invention of Satan's that he uses to cause strife & dissent among & within congregations, some of which you've experienced for yourself. I, myself, have been called every name a pagan can be called in English, & even threatened with violence(til I picked up a ball bat) for using modern versions & speaking out against the KJVO myth. Unfortunately, the strife works both ways, but the majority comes from the KJVO side.
 
robycop3

robycop3

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rlvaughn said:
I disagree that there is no KJV hate. Yes, some of what is seen as KJV hate is strong opposition to the KJV-only position. If you assert that you do not hate the KJV, that is one thing. If you assert it does not exist, that is quite another. Hate may be too strong a word in many cases, but I have noticed over the course of nearly 40 years in the ministry that there exists distinct dislike of the King James Version of the Bible. Not only is there opposition to KJV-only, there also is opposition to using the King James Version. Some are content to use what they use and leave the use of the KJV to those who like it. Others attack the use of the King James Version.

Nearly 40 years ago I was looking at a book in a Christian book store in Longview. As I thumbed through it, my eye caught a place where the author discussed the King James translation as one of the worst translations ever. KJVO was not in view, the attack was on the translation itself. 8 or 10 years ago a writer at SBC Voices attacked the “Old Paths” in general, and then used KJV as a “great example” of what was wrong with the old paths. While he brought up KJVO in this piece, his points were not against “onlyism,” but against the King James translation. He did not believe there was any reason that anyone should use the KJV in Bible study or in preaching. The language was too formal, too old, too confusing, out-of-date (as far as new discoveries, etc.), and modern translations are superior “in every way”. He said King James English was becoming a foreign language (the current one, not 1611). Some commenter chimed in with a derogatory joke about the language, of ordering at a restaurant thou’s best burgereths, and a Coketh (or something like that).

Now you all may agree with all of that about the KJV; but you also need the discernment to see that is not merely an attack on onlyism, it is opposition the Bible itself. I am gladly willing to call it strong opposition (no need to call it hate except when the mockery creeps in) that reflects what you believe about the Bible, but be willing to own when your opposition is to the Bible itself and do not blame that part on the KJVOs.
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Several of us have pointed out some of the goofs & booboos in the KJV, such as the much-discussed "Easter" goof in Acts 12:4. Whether or not KJVOs will admit it, those goofs are real.
 
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rlvaughn

Well-Known Member
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JonC said:
To be fair, I have not seen people hate the KJV on this forum, but the world is much larger than the BB.
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Yes, the world is very much larger than this forum, but the BB can likely be considered a microcosm of it (at least the Baptist world of the West). As I noted in post # 14, hate is probably too strong a word in most cases. To refresh my memory, I looked up its definition. At Lexico I found:
Feel intense or passionate dislike for someone or some thing; Have a strong aversion to something
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I do not think that is too strong to describe some people's feelings about the KJV, whether here on the BB, I know not. I think it is likely unprofitable to try to discuss it, and would yield little light. Almost 100% (if not 100%) of the regular Baptist posters would claim they do not hate the KJV.

It may not rise to the level of hate, but there is a rudeness and disrespect sometimes exhibited on the BB toward the King James translation. If folks mean to disrespect the KJV-only position, they need to be clear about that. That is not always what they are doing, even if they think it is.

If nothing else, the KJV deserves the respect of a beloved grandparent whose best years have passed. You may wish grandpa or grandma did not drool on the chin, but when you mock them for it, you cross over the line. It is blatant disrespect. One may wish the KJV had made a different translation decision here or there, or think that they got it wrong at a certain place, or hope that some things could be updated -- but when those of us who cannot translate our way out of a paper sack mock those things, the line has been crossed.
 
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Southern Fried Baptist

Southern Fried Baptist

Member
Salty said:
Two things-
1) Been nearly 24 hours since Southern Fired Baptists has reposted ----- Hmmmm just saying

2) Some have given examples of the hate of (supposed) KJV haters.
IMHO - the OP was concerned (or complaining) about the (supposed) KJV haters who are members of this board.
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Many have agreed with me. I don’t need to post again. The most hateful of those to the KJVO group in all reality just hate the KJV cause they can’t understand it. So the attack it under the false pretense of kjvo.
 
kathleenmariekg

kathleenmariekg

Active Member
I think KJV users that report discrimination are sometimes in a similar situation as people of color that report discrimination. Secondary wounding can be worse than the original wounding and silences victims.

I am going to say nothing of my most uncomfortable incidents. It is more comfortable for me to publicly profess that nothing ever happened.
 
C

Conan

Well-Known Member
Southern Fried Baptist said:
What’s wrong with someone believing that the KJV is the best translation? Many believe the ESV is the best translation. I have no problem with that. That’s their opinion. Their wrong……
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There absoloutly nothing wrong with that opinion. I hold to it myself. But as I said at the beginning, it is the "Onlyism", or telling lies about other translations, using false hood, false witness for starters.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Conan said:
All of those are in response to "Onlyism". Context, contex, context
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KJV only implies unity among the congregations. I do not see them worshiping the KJV. In fact I do not believe any one worships the Bible. The worship is just an false accusation.
MB.
 
C

Conan

Well-Known Member
Southern Fried Baptist said:
Many have agreed with me. I don’t need to post again. The most hateful of those to the KJVO group in all reality just hate the KJV cause they can’t understand it. So the attack it under the false pretense of kjvo.
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Apparently you do not know what KJVOnlyism is. It is not believing the KJV is the best version, or a person only using that version. That is not KJVOnlyism.
 
C

Conan

Well-Known Member
MB said:
KJV only implies unity among the congregations. I do not see them worshiping the KJV. In fact I do not believe any one worships the Bible. The worship is just an false accusation.
MB.
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I think you have no real experiences with KJVOnlyism. I don't believe you actually know what it is. That is good. Stay innocent. Do not tell the lies of the "onlyist".
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
rlvaughn said:
Yes, the world is very much larger than this forum, but the BB can likely be considered a microcosm of it (at least the Baptist world of the West). As I noted in post # 14, hate is probably too strong a word in most cases. To refresh my memory, I looked up its definition. At Lexico I found: I do not think that is too strong to describe some people's feelings about the KJV, whether here on the BB, I know not. I think it is likely unprofitable to try to discuss it, and would yield little light. Almost 100% (if not 100%) of the regular Baptist posters would claim they do not hate the KJV.

It may not rise to the level of hate, but there is a rudeness and disrespect sometimes exhibited on the BB toward the King James translation. If folks mean to disrespect the KJV-only position, they need to be clear about that. That is not always what they are doing, even if they think it is.

If nothing else, the KJV deserves the respect of a beloved grandparent whose best years have passed. You may wish grandpa or grandma did not drool on the chin, but when you mock them for it, you cross over the line. It is blatant disrespect. One may wish the KJV had made a different translation decision here or there, or think that they got it wrong at a certain place, or hope that some things could be updated -- but when those of us who cannot translate our way out of a paper sack mock those things, the line has been crossed.
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I do not know of anyone here who even mildly dislikes the KJV.

I think the "feelings" come in (on both sides) when people make the claim their favorite translation is superior to others.

Obviously we all have opinions, and we all probably realize each translation has strengths and weaknesses (largely based on the translators philosophy of translation).

Personally, I love the KJV. Do I consider it the best translation of God's Word in English? No, of course not. But that does not detract from my appreciation of the translation.

The KJV strikes an amazing balance between a "literal" translation and preserving the literary style (and it is a beautiful translation). Would I recommend the KJV to a new believer? No. But I would not hesitate to study from the KJV.
 
robycop3

robycop3

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Site Supporter
MB said:
KJV only implies unity among the congregations. I do not see them worshiping the KJV. In fact I do not believe any one worships the Bible. The worship is just an false accusation.
MB.
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You haven't read some articles by "Pastor" Stephen Anderson in which he DOES claim to worship the KJV.
 
robycop3

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Southern Fried Baptist said:
What’s wrong with someone believing that the KJV is the best translation? Many believe the ESV is the best translation. I have no problem with that. That’s their opinion. Their wrong……
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Nothing, long as such believers don't claim it's the ONLY valid English Bible translation, or that someone using other translations is using the wrong versions or corrupt versions.
 
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